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what are the real interests of opus dei ? |
Ulises
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30 October de 2002 at 11:54:09  
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| If the main official reasons that there is Opus Dei, as holiness in everyday life, clearly contradict the manipulation, coercion, deceit, lies and so on. which, by the testimony known, are a fairly widespread practice within the Opus, the question I ask myself and I open for this issue is: What are the true interests of Opus Dei?. |
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| Ulises |
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11 November de 2002 at 10:54:48
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I agree that Opus wants to have power in the Vatican, in fact it is theirs much of that power, the Vatican spokesman and Opus is more than one occasion to rectify the Pope.
It is clear that all questions of the speakers from the ex-opus, relating to coercion, manipulation and other customary practices as tools for physical harm and mental control camouflaged by talks and confessions, are subject to a system for group members and get that feel united against everything external, while an unhealthy environment with continuous accusations among themselves so that this union may never be against the organization.
This type of system can not have another reason to exist to defend the Opus itself, no matter what may be the very purpose of the organization.
Members of Opus naturally perform practices contrary to the holiness and love, and yet it seems that not even be aware of this, the best, Auque is clear that many must act with great awareness and motivation either by personal interests or to maintain control of the organization.
All this suggests that the main interests of Opus should be those of maintaining and increasing their power and may adapt their methods to the times, but always with the same dynamic of being close to the most powerful and the most efficient way to get. |
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| Ulises |
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04 December de 2002 at 18:08:27
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Having become clear that the main interest of Opus is increasing its power, we can ask what purpose they want that power.
Given that the Catholic Church has always moved by two main criteria, one being continuation of the Christian spirit that is the justification that moves and theoretically the only one you want, and secondly the achievement of power to apply to all other existing religions and to gain privileges by many of its members, it is clear that always needed different types of organizations for these purposes, some of these organizations has been to implement the Christian spirit, these organizations are used to maintain ethically acceptable facade of the Church and of course the Christian people really think and participate, but there are other organizations dedicated to maintaining and enhancing the power of the Church in these currently has a primary role of Opus Dei, the as they have had other at different times.
Given all this, it is easy to understand the role that has been awarded to Opus once this has found support from the current pope and has succeeded in placing its members in positions of decision of the Church is the spearhead of the church in achieving their earthly interests, economic power and political power primarily.
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| Evaristo |
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04 December de 2002 at 18:34:08
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Hi Ulises. Listen carefully you've already missed. And I missed your usual unsubstantiated claims and assertions. After your glorious defense of some kind of scientific and well documented study on something about sexuality (you've thanked folosoft to erase these messages ... you have avoided a huge silly), you pick up with you now it has become clear The main interest of Opus. Really it has become clear? Three attempts on the matter, and if I mistake not, nobody has proven anything. Even those who seem to defend the case. But for you, everything is clear. And of course, agrees with your opinion a priori, that is your pre-trial.
If you believe that the Church seeks economic and political powers, no wonder you do not have, shall we say, good impression of Opus Dei. The Opus is a part of the Church, as there are a thousand. And the end of the Opus are those of the Church is true. But do you really think that in the twenty-first century the Church still pursuing that earthly power you speak of? Do you really think that the Church today paints a shit in today's society? (I refer to Spanish society, and also assume that other countries will be similar)
Berto, who is years overdue is this Ulysses...
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| Berto |
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04 December de 2002 at 19:41:44
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Hello, friends. I, Berto, the friend of children. What a joy to see you again. Evaristo it seems these days have been a pressure cooker without a safety valve. What momentum. Did you have mono? As I said the only interest of the Opus Dei is its reproduction. More Fellows, more aggregate, more temporary, more cooperative. Timber. Well, the wood does not say Opus Dei. What I do not know is what you want to do with such a gang. "Tranforma the world? Give him around like a sweaty sock? Or was it sweat?
PS: One problem: if in a brief circle fit up to 12 people, how many circles will require brief to serve the 80,000 members in a week, less sick and shirker?. The winners entered to win a trip to Bruno Buozzi. Indeed, when Bruno Buozzi canonized? Bye. |
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| Ulises |
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04 December de 2002 at 20:41:43
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I am glad that the forum has animated a little, Evaristo but taking it easy (according to what is called animation, of course).
Evaristo, I thought it was you that you had run out of arguments on the issue of sexuality exadeptos both when that they had already put the link on other occasions, like when you said that an investigation was needed to make valid with 10% of the members of Opus (and supporters ).... and a few other things like that. But as I think Berto is right as to who should be the "monkey", I guess anger slowly you start to relax and maybe give some arguments, even of your own. Anyway everyone has their opinion on others, and occasionally you already called you loudmouth, remember?.
As you can see other messages in this topic, for me it is clear that the pursuit of holiness and all those things they say on the Opus are just words that contradict the testimony of most of exadeptos as at manipulation, coercion , practices mind control devices for self-flagellation etc ..., and as I said I think all this is only a system to keep the group together against all outside with a fighting spirit to achieve the aims of Opus. For me it is clear that these interests are power, as witnessed by the fact that so many people of Opus are fighting for the inner circle of political power (Spain is a very clear example of this) and economic power, and you know everything has to consult with "spiritual advisers."
Whether the church has worldly interests and paint something in today's society, if you've got something so obvious I can not explain well, but I think we should focus on the Opus, which is why this forum, and the mere fact that Opus has these interests means that the Church has, since it is part of it. |
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| Berto |
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05 December de 2002 at 16:32:41
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| Hi Ulises. I, Berto, the friend of children. Slap on the wrist to the song. I consider it unnecessary to remember what they said Evaristo it at other times before. Bad taste, well. I also wonder how much you know of Opus Dei without having belonged. Or think you know, that's another story. I always maintained the theory that it never belonged generally have a distorted idea, for better or for worse, what Opus Dei really is. In this regard, and generally makes me laugh a lot that people who have not gone through the Work pontificating hearsay. Almost always or very short stay or go. All this I say Ulysses is not intended as an ad hominem attack for you. It is simply to voice-in letter-high. I myself spent several years in and I have not yet been clarified very well what their true interests. Also I guess it's good to have people on this forum to defend the position of the Work. Receive a big hug, Ulises. |
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| Ulises |
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05 December de 2002 at 17:44:46
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Hi Berto, the only reason I remember being told Evaristo blabbermouth is that I think has slipped back into the same to say that I made a fool of myself with the topic of sexuality exadeptos. Anyway, if you noticed some of my speeches, you've seen I do not often come into play-calling, sometimes even when I direct them to me, and of course, on occasion I expressed that to me are necessary in forum members, former members and those who have never belonged to Opus.
As for power have no opinion about Opus have been inside, I can tell you just entered this forum to inform, and few experiences here and what I've read I have drawn my conclusions. From my point of view one can have a complete knowledge about the intricacies of an organization as large, but even those who have been members here are allowed to know who did not appreciate things when they were inside, all I think they complement the views of which you have been inside with whom we do not carry that burden on our backpacks.
Moreover I will tell you that I appreciate your assistance, are a cheerful note and respectful in this forum, but in this case prefer to give yourself views on the subject of a strained ears wrong.  |
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| Berto |
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05 December de 2002 at 19:11:50
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Hi Ulises appreciated. I, Berto, the friend of children. You pick up the gauntlet. I must warn that these are tentative conclusions. Appealing to the patience of readers, I have to do some pre-existing situation. To wit:
A) The Catholic Church, in the traditional sense of the word we all know, is languishing. The churches are emptying. Hierarchy, clergy and laity engaged in parochial movements squeeze the brain is that its message cale. Not hold, however. Some young priests promote strange marriage between Catholic and post modernity. Result: there is a pastiche who swallow. Catholics themselves are no longer very sure of the doctrine. Bishops' pastoral, without unanimity in substance as "Thou shalt not kill" such as the recent terrorism in Spain do nothing to clarify positions or to further accessions. The appearance of colorful characters as the pastor of Valverde del Camino, D. José Mantero, on the cover of the magazine claiming that Zero is gay "thank God" unsettles traditional Catholics but, conversely, does not encourage the approach of those groups (gays in this case) that allegedly benefit these manifestations. As someone said in this forum weeks ago, the life of the monks were secularized and increasingly widely understood less (among themselves) life in religious communities. The Church gives the feeling of being a hodgepodge of an "anything goes". Each one interprets the message of Christ as you want and apply it as it pleases. Note: you do not say that this is wrong. No judgments. I intend to capture a reality.
B) By contrast, since 1928 there is a traditional Catholic movement whose structures are characterized by obedience and a scrupulous than the pre-conciliar Church ordered. Obviously this movement was adapted to Vatican II in some ways, but in essence it remains exactly the same since its founding. Interestingly was despised first by the most reactionary and over the years by the most progressive. This movement has not been affected in their ways neither. Has continued its path, while others struggled until the commas of the Gospel. It is a movement in which if his rank of Rome says A, the last member of the Ukrainian club will last A. Use the unconditional loyalty of their members, some of which are promoted to the priesthood. Today, as yesterday, is a solid structure. When in doubt, contrary to what is now the traditional church does not hesitate to say, "Come with us: we have the Truth." All this combined with a delicacy with the Pope and I imagine that generous financial contributions to the Vatican, which has earned since the papal favor.
C) arrives century. Some are amazed that "the Vatican is in the hands of Opus Dei. Well this is just the beginning. Let's say that those who today are in the Halls of Valicano (Navarro Valls ....) promotions are only the first of which began to take shape many years ago. Already has a number of Opus Dei bishops in addition to the prelate himself, but has never been friends with the Work of its priests wear purple. However it does have many Bishops and Cardinals "friends." Slowly and not so much by their successes as the apathy that permeates a Catholic Church unable to provide answers Opus Dei charges will become important. I do not think spending many years in which we see several cardinals of the work, although I have reservations about whether they will be able to take the plunge and take over the papacy. They were always friends of the second places, where you're not on stage but sometimes send even more than it is. And then the Opus Dei will absolutely hands free to do and undo in the Church as it pleases. It will be the master of the Church, the phagocytized. Take care forms, but the strings dominate. This is my opinion. Sorry for the lengthy text. Bye.
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| Evaristo |
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06 December de 2002 at 01:56:23
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As you see, Odysseus, I am one of the children is so friendly Berto. Seems like you've committed to give validity to an absurd document that falls under its own weight. Slap on the wrist by naive. You say you intend to also inform you about Opus Dei. And for that you enter this forum. You do not deserve the slap on the wrist for it. But the best information about Opus Dei, or at least a version quite important, you're going to hit the Opus Dei itself. Have you gone there? Do you know anyone in Opus Dei? Do you consider the other versions of former members? Not even so you will know of all the Opus Dei. For your superficiality yes you deserve the aforementioned tironcete ears. I remember that several discussions have intentionally left half, not wanting to get to the bottom of the matter. Nobody had anything clear, so we debated. But you do have clear interest in Opus Dei. Did you have clear from the outset, when starting the topic of discussion?. Again, tironcete by your prejudices.
On top of that let me jump aside the issue of the Church. Did not you get yourself? Are you going to investigate the Opus Dei bypassing the Church? Slap on the wrist by ...............................( add the appropriate adjective, not being an insult, a synonym of largemouth)
Along with both flip, gets a hug.
Evaristo
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| pusey-2 |
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06 December de 2002 at 13:41:32
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You have not visited regularly by the Forum. I just read the last message from Berto. I think he has done a very lucid analysis of the reality of the Catholic Church.
In another vein, I was impressed very much the story of the experiences of Poppy (37), and I am ashamed that one of the things I liked best was Opus neatness, cleanliness and service of auxiliary numeraries but at what cost!
Done at fault in the forum the views of Lola, and yes I understand the responses of Lucy, what happens is that men, and most of us who have been in the works, not appreciate the humor of women.
Greetings to all. |
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| Lola2002 |
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06 December de 2002 at 14:05:59
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PUSEY HOLA !!!!! I'm coming back, but for now I'm a spectator even when those items are "hot" can not avoid participating ...
A kiss
LOLA
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Invitado |
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06 December de 2002 at 19:25:52
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pusey-2
Berto
Amapola (37)
Lola
Lucy
LOLA2002  ? |
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| pusey-2 |
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06 December de 2002 at 20:15:13
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¿invitado?
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| Ulises |
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09 December de 2002 at 21:15:07
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The term "slap on the wrist" by Berto is funny because of the novelty and because it is in their speeches, but Evaristo, is grotesque use it repeatedly to say no one agrees with others.
As for prejudice, I am sure that mine are lower than yours, as to the Opus, and if I know supernumeraries.
I do not mind talking about the Church as it relates to the Opus, but this forum is not afraid to speak of the Church itself, to what I meant.
"Issues that have left?, You mean that when I expressed my opinion about them and you're on your branches speak of" the metamorphosis of the river red crab "or" sex of angels "I stop to answer, and that I to do now, if you say something about the topic open here as well, but I will not continue with this nonsense.
Ah, on "Sexuality ex-followers," if you have any views on why I believe should be posted there.
Putting all this, what you've described, Berto, it is right, that's what I meant when I said that I consider to Opus as the "spearhead" of the Church. I think the difference between your view and mine is that you consider that the interests of Opus are strictly religious and I think that go beyond. From my point of view, religion is essential for them because so conservative tendencies coalesce needed to stay in power and on the other hand is a means of justifying their sectarian attitude, but other than that senior leaders believe it or not these religious ideas I think the fundamental interest is to maintain and enhance their power within an ideology that goes beyond the strictly religious.
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| odin258 |
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11 December de 2002 at 18:04:26
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I fully agree with Ulysses. Opus Dei has a dark side, I am a student in one of its universities, but I always wondered why the separation of men from women in the cultural center, perhaps with some difference in the way of teaching?, in classes all see the same issues we are male or women.Most activities are carried out here are closed, and only allowed entry if it has been invited by some teachers at universidad.El other day I went with a friend one of these cultural centers of the university, which is supposed to be a place where students can study quietly, but my friend filled him with questions about how he reached that place, and almost did not let in, being universidad.Por student of this differentiation to people? assuming that is a work that proclaims equality in every aspect.
Saludos desde Latinoamerica |
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