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what are the real interests of opus dei ? |
Ulises
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30 October de 2002 at 11:54:09  
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| If the main official reasons that there is Opus Dei, as holiness in everyday life, clearly contradict the manipulation, coercion, deceit, lies and so on. which, by the testimony known, are a fairly widespread practice within the Opus, the question I ask myself and I open for this issue is: What are the true interests of Opus Dei?. |
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| cazuelo |
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08 November de 2002 at 01:23:28
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| Evaristo's dissertation brings me to make a comment, not always well considered: although the Opus Dei is one and boasts that its spirit has always been the same since its foundation, the truth (as I read testimonies of people in different many years in the Work) is that the criteria have changed and adapted according to circunsatancias (which I suppose has done much to mental ensaimada members). From the well-known figure who pursued secular institute for years, once achieved completely change your mind, going through that famous phrase from the founder of Opus Dei who would never have schools, the allocation of the aggregate functions (as commented Volo in an earlier message), the refusal to accept the Second Vatican Council, in the view of the unstoppable, praised him, "thrilled" by saying that the council recognized and affirmed the message of the work, from the proliferation of companies assistants as 'intermediaries' business until the great scandals were hatched from celebrating mass on her back and in Latin (that's what I still lived in the 80's until one day, without explanation, the priest began to celebrate the normal style ... That is, at least in the internal functioning NO ONE OPUS DEI in time. As an anecdote to tell a good day in my center director at the gathering (it felt like I needed to say because well was ordered) told us that we do not miss the many changes experienced by older aggregates in their lifestyle (like living together in an apartment that suddenly like that way of life more like that of the Fellows-kept exist) because "as the first generation of aggregates reaching that age, they seek the right formulas and there are no precedents." That is, the Work has adapted its operation at circusntancias. I imagine that this will place indents for vocations verdadreas of people who end up with a thousand pairs pie. Saludos.Cazuelo |
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| Ulises |
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08 November de 2002 at 14:17:45
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| Cazuelo, opus is logical that their forms have changed over time, how could survive if it continued advocating fascism, or do if he continued to defend the inferiority of women? (but somehow still does) and so on. For as has had no choice but to change in these ideas (at least outwardly), it follows that also has changed in shapes. It is also logical that there may be different in each country, according to the type of institution etc, but those are basics, and are taken for granted, so look for the true interests of Opus ignoring all these standards have been created for keep members connected and amenable to the interests of the group, but fight with all the external. |
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| Evaristo |
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08 November de 2002 at 17:06:07
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And more things change. Opus will change almost everything, I'm sure. What is critical and what is not. But I return to bet a thousand euros, when I change, will jump more criticism other matters. And will change and evolve ... at whatever rate is slow or fast, but will change to Opus Opus. Not the former members, or journalists, or the public. This everyone knows.
What will not change, return to play me my thousand euro, are the ultimate interests: the spread of Catholicism and the sanctification of ordinary life |
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| lucy |
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08 November de 2002 at 23:49:17
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Evaristo Dear: I see that you like betting money. Euro 1000!
I prefer betting nothing. The money I have I have earned with hard work and not waste a penny for potus.
But back to the interesting question of Ulysses: What are the true interests of the opus?
The opus, has only one absolute interest and principal: take by assault the power of the Vatican. And all the means that lead to this end will be holy and revered.
Power for what? They will say to save souls and me dire: to satisfy your hunger for vanity and glory.
Changes in the opus come in and will always be opportunists. When people see their stalls, were "achancha" and revenues decline sharply, then change whatever is necessary so as not to lose power in the church dome.
They are replicating the structure mounted over 2000 years ago Escriva and Pharisees. Those who gave thumbs-down to Jesus "in nomine Domine.
How cruel and paradoxical are the pathways of religious people. And happy and simple ways of those who love God.
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| Evaristo |
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09 November de 2002 at 01:24:31
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Hi Lucy. We notice that you are new, because otherwise you would know my complicated to interpret metaphorical language (which was bromaaaaaaaaaa, that I bet nadaaaaaaaaaaaaa)
Seriously, I read another message from you, and though it pains me greatly to your experience, and I doubt it, I think that oozes resentment on all sides. I wish I for me the inner peace that I saw people I knew most of the house. I do not know in your country, but in mine the Opus does not work as you say. If so, the work had been extinguished long ago.
But the issue here is the interest. It seems ridiculous that Opus wants the power of the Vatican. Apart from not wanting a bad thing, if so, assuming they cash a Pope ... That I think even my cat.
By the way, who wants to "power" of the Church, as is evident in society (at least Spanish, which is more Catholic than the Pope) that the Church does not paint a damn? The times of the Borgia ended and, thank God.
Greetings
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| lucy |
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09 November de 2002 at 03:24:33
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To you I call Evaristo, the ready. It is well sweetie 
Because I am woman, Evaristo, is probably why I have not caught your joke?
My experiences do not count them as your children ready for Evaristo, accounts for the vast majority of people who were in the opus under duress and are very clear that the domestic economic management and delegation. Is even more important at Roman?
If. I have seen many elderly people, full of peace. The "peace" award brainwashing they did for years. The "inner peace" that gives believe the only beings capable of being saved (?) By God to simply "meet" standards. The only people able to cast a critical sour and resentful youth against his acepataban not insignificant proposal "vocational". The "peace" that gives internal censors being of others (see the straw in the eyes of others and not in theirs vogas ...) for not thinking like them in coyugal, philosophical or political.
If the bias of your mind you leave the label Poniendome quiet resentment. Forward smart man! Well for you I will be a bitter. And it will be something I learned very well in the Opus. Yes there resentment flowing from all sides.
I remember during a withdrawal of cash, a priest gave us the bad news that a supernumerary had had a car accident along with her 5 children and one of his children died in the accident. After the talk and as we walked to the chapel as the Director commented that we were going under at closely, "Y. .. fulanita before was numerary. The betrayals are paid in life ..."
Evaristo. This resentment you talk? I have waaaaay anecdotes to tell and illustrate on this matter.
But now friends sing: Asereje da je, Jereb dejebe tude ... "
Life is beautiful. Yes, yes, Evaristo. Mas alla del opus there is LIFE !!!!!
What is not sosportas you encourage someone say raw truths that lived in the sect. but let us sing: Asereje da deje....  |
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| cazuelo |
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09 November de 2002 at 04:30:27
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| Lucy has opinions worth Evaristo "peculiar" and did not always agree (also, what you see, have much money to gamble). But well, what was Lucy, or you express yourself better, or give the impression of being simply and I swear that with all respect and no offense, as cops. Greetings. Cazuelo |
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| marc |
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09 November de 2002 at 05:23:29
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Lucy carino resentful because scribes as aggressively as overcome with Cantitos type of ajerejeje jejej, I would say you're not going anywhere. I would say out of respect for the former members of the Work to overturn opinions on this page, such as 37, tanit, Evaristo, pans, lola and others, I recommend you read though the forum and comments made here are discussed serious things, with some grade level of discussion and none falls into a string of attacks that lead to nothing but other people think as they say in Argentina that THESE overheating.
I will propose a new topic "Labeling OF EX-OPUS .." They successfully removed all the money, made us pray in Latin, leaving all the silver, the hair shirt is crazy, we washed the brain, we had to tell all the principal, are elitist, Opus is Franco, a shower of cold water brought me back crazy, life plan, ...
to hear this because there are books and old for many years, but goes to tell you so Odan.org but we're not going anywhere.
And forgive any of the people here makes fun of another, look at me with either one I get I'm always the most porqe defender or as they say my Spanish friends .. marc uncle has already washed coconut .. but here is discussed at high level and is not JODA as the Argentines say, this is the life of many people who have suffered
There I began to bore, has forgiven me forgot Evaristo in Argentina Opus is for other than Spain by doubts..... |
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| Alvaro |
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09 November de 2002 at 07:19:52
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It seems that the truth stings. And before the torpedo-Lucy, leaving the three musketeers to take over land, repairing injury and infidels excommunicate. Evaristo with its metaphors, casserole pan and Marc with his compliments, we want to save.
Casserole friend, how is Lucy going to bother because they say, with all respect, that as a cops?. That man will not be disturbed. That surely will be annoyed (and rightly) be your. Behold the ajereje sing as bad as you feel the song from "the birds". Must have been terrible. That disguto mother. " That does not make casserole is very sensitive and when you hold the bodies, gets bad. Please, a little more respect.
Lucy's opinion is the highest level (including metaphors) that we have used the three moqueteros. But it seems to me interesting, and I'm so ignorant to understand it. Will I have the brain dirty or being invaded by the devil?.
A greeting
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| iggy |
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09 November de 2002 at 12:41:32
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Alvaro, recalls that in the play, one of the "reflex actions" that all we had was to save the honor and prestige of all that surround our family, the Work. You know what I mean. No matter whether the criticism or comment ironically had some basis, we prepared to leave the face and leave to defend the work as if our mother-at least. Without hesitation. As a spring automatic. That's the least we could do. And we did very well because at least I was convinced that the others were ill, those who wanted to attack the work, to church, etc..
So do not be surprised that some are loath to discard some time this "tick" or "automatic reflex." Marc is logical that it has and what it is to keep the work-and even better for him if they are happier and can make others happy indeed "As to the former members that we always explain the messages or nuance or to us all, lest we create everything in order to safeguard our mental health etc. .. well then and they will pass with time. I hope.
Iggy  |
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| cazuelo |
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09 November de 2002 at 13:40:05
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Why some are so Manichean? Why the mere fact of having belonged to the Work is assumed that one has to go on whirlwind crushing everything she is? Can not one attempt to try to objectify and, as far as possible, to draw conclusions weighted?
Alvaro Amigo do not intend to argue with you (or anyone) in a personal capacity but the fact that I include in an alleged group of the forum (which he described as "The Three Musketeers") maybe (just maybe) the best evidence that the which is a remnant of you, bent on seeing conspiracies and associations of people who are against your truth. Have you heard the song?. It is a hypothesis. Look, just invite you, one by one, go reread all my speeches in the forum: when I consider that the procedures of the Work threaten people or legality, or mere common sense I have not gone to any warm cloth. Fortunately, this is like an archive. Now, if you believe that interventions such as Lucy where the culmination of how someone who is not in his senses, then what can I say ... only asked him to explain. Can you tell me (in fact tell me) that in an earlier statement I made reference to "The Hawks". If the full reading, the beginning of that message said that it was with relaxed mood. I may not explained very well. And if I have to apologize to Lucy, clothes do not hurt, although I understand that tone comments do a disservice to a serious discussion about Opus Dei in which none have the whole truth. A hug to you and Iggy. Cazuelo.  |
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| Alvaro |
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09 November de 2002 at 22:47:56 >
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Friend casserole, I think we agree or not with a view to refute, support or ironic, but always without bitterness. All that comentas of "trying to objectify and to the extent possible, draw conclusions weighted" sounds very nice and I fully subscribe. But that phrase does not square with the insults. And tell a coterie "which is like a cops" or you repeat now, wrapped in gift paper "that is not in their right mind", it seems an insult.
KindestRegards
Alvaro
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| tanit |
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10 November de 2002 at 03:24:11
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Cazuelo, do not fix it. You have insulted Lucy. It starts to tickle me as q. happens in this forum. When someone dares to speak the truth bluntly or is mentally disturbed or is like a flatfoot. Well worth it. Again opus teach us how open and tolarantes q. cojonuda mentalmente.Es arguments are: as I do not like q. I tell you crush viva.Ya q. we are in a high-level debate at q. Lucy does not seem to be half talla.Yo I q.le canvas because I understood it perfectly from start to finish. And I totally identify with q. there exposed.
Greetings |
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| marc |
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10 November de 2002 at 07:22:47
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Alvaro perdon tu quien eres? the owner of this forum? you criticize me and insult my casserole?
I do not defend porqe you are the enemy of the OD and the Church, what bothers me is the lie, and I'm still waiting for reply, and as hard to go back and read, I say absolutely MENTIRAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
Clinic in Southern interned hundreds of cash and cash depressed and if something is rescue Alvaro recognize Ignorance, and therein lies the explanation of all this waste of time when the level of discussion of this topic was very good.
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| Evaristo |
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10 November de 2002 at 17:49:52
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That is, if interpreted remotely an insult to lucy, there are all (not the three musketeers ... the hundred thousand sons of St. Louis ...) to defend and half a pound to say something. But if a server is called a loudmouth ... then nothing happens, you're screwed. And if I call a temporary mindless, because nothing happens. But as I say to a former bounce @, then to lynch.
Only be explained by the assumption that characterizes more than one, I am objective and yes you are "scheduled", you do not see things objectively because you're "programmed" ... |
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