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what are the real interests of opus dei ? |
Ulises
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30 October de 2002 at 11:54:09  
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| If the main official reasons that there is Opus Dei, as holiness in everyday life, clearly contradict the manipulation, coercion, deceit, lies and so on. which, by the testimony known, are a fairly widespread practice within the Opus, the question I ask myself and I open for this issue is: What are the true interests of Opus Dei?. |
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| edgar |
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02 November de 2002 at 18:37:06
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Look I am the Opus bowl at the moment, and my managers have told me that just should not look at these sites, I have taken a big brawl. I understand that this site does not help much to a person from home but I think it serves to contrast opinions, to see more views and then decide yourself. So am I at this time. Greetings to the people of the forum.  |
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| edgar |
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02 November de 2002 at 18:55:26
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| Look I am the Opus bowl at the moment, and my managers have told me that just should not look at these sites, I have taken a big brawl. I understand that this site does not help much to a person from home but I think it serves to contrast opinions, to see more views and then decide yourself. So am I at this time. Greetings to the people of the forum. |
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| cazuelo |
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02 November de 2002 at 19:08:55
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Well, Edgar, one of "House" will not help you much come to this forum in the opinion of the work, which, although fall away, is not the word of God. If one's vocation is really clear and the methods used by the Opus Dei are for him the best, do not understand why you can not help (even help him to others) simplmente stating his opinion. That this is not a summary court judge where the Work. That's my opinion, of course, that I fear should not share the directors of the Work. I'm sorry, dear. A greeting. I look forward to seeing you around here. (Incidentally, I find it strange that one of the Work says "is in Opus (without Dei). Cazuelo  |
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| Evaristo |
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02 November de 2002 at 19:51:36
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| Do not get me wrong, I will not justify anyone (the corrupt, to be hanged), but in this Spain of ours, that thing of the shares of a company do not know what a few guys from this and that ... Bambi it is compared with the serious things that happen every day. "Spain is Asin" |
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| cazuelo |
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02 November de 2002 at 20:17:17
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| Ayyyy Evaristo... How I missed your active presence in the forum! These responses weighted or measures that are not ever going through the branches. Well, boy, you are genius and figure. Que sigas much time here, and I see that thing. (To your previous opinion or bother to respond, okay?) Very strong hug.Cazuelo |
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| Alvaro |
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02 November de 2002 at 22:28:06
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Friend Evaristo
1) I believe there is no reason, however grave, to hang anybody. (Not murder).
2) The most serious things that has no justification for irregularities in the buying and selling shares. Spain is "asin" for some. Is not sanctify the daily work?. We must begin complying with the laws.
Friendly greetings and grateful that participate in the forum.
Alvaro
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| Evaristo |
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03 November de 2002 at 11:16:12
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Hey, Cazuelo, tell that such Alvaro weigh their responses, the better measure, not go around the bush, so innocent that it was thought that going to hang somebody. Now I understand the criticism I made some of the symbolism of my expression must be bored understand how hard it is ...
And tell him to read the message, which was said (and I do not know if it clear) that the first does not justify illegal action (of Opus or Marrupe City Council) is a server.
But I repeat: what we have fallen some cherry? How many are there who were born yesterday?
PS: do not understand the last two questions in the context set out, consult the above messages and a handbook of idioms and phrases in Castilian.
Hugs to thousands
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| Alvaro |
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03 November de 2002 at 12:27:26
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Evaristo Hi, I'm such Alvaro. On entering I saw you were at the forum. That penalty had not talked directly with you. But anyway, I'll have another day that oprtunidad.
Pardon my ignorance and my stupidity, but what he meant by the phrase 'to be hanged corrupt'?.
When you say 'you're the first that does not justify illegal action' you mean that you disagree with the falsification of records commenting Casserole, to collect a subsidy?.
Yours faithfully.
Alvaro Valdenebro
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| Evaristo |
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03 November de 2002 at 14:38:22
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Hola Alvaro
Can you chat on this board? Encantadisimo. If you want, we 'see' also in msn (my address is on the list of participants; casserole, I added you but I never see you ...)
Okay, Alvaro, for your interpretation: not only do not agree with such counterfeiting but condemn any other fraud (large or small) But that does not prevent me from seeing what is, loopholes and many malicious. And I think, specifically that of the minutes, is Bambi. To receive grants more than one and two are more than capable of making things worse (my beloved Spain, the Spain of mine, this Spain added)
And the corrupt, that den of ... (do not go thinking that I want the sodomize)
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| Ulises |
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03 November de 2002 at 21:45:24
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You can not say that everything that has been expressed here in each of the evidence presented is what happens in all centers of Opus dependent, but if there have been any of them which has expressed knowledge of the existence of boxes B.
As at charities, was released recently a report in El Pais reported that as the Spanish government had increased its aid at Opus NGOs dependent while the other NGOs had fallen most critical, if that will join the pan on experience recounted by the Youth Association in which he participated, suggests that the real interest in his work Opus "charity" to conceal other motivations differ.
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| marc |
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05 November de 2002 at 04:21:26
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no one addressed my message guys, and nobody orders me to answer, give me that smile
Or perhaps I'm in another Opus Dei, and nobody told me beep or be pressured in the Work, I am because I felt like it! because I want to.
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| Ulises |
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07 November de 2002 at 14:51:58
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Because the path of holiness does not seem the reason for the existence of Opus, since neither the methods nor the lessons you can get something, or works of charity, with the connotation that the latter term may have, it seems nor the reason for their existence is not proportional because the effort exerted in this direction with the power of Opus, besides them seem to have much interest in the economic and tax advantages they bring. I keep asking what are the true interests of Opus Dei.
Considering that Opus was formed in the Spanish Republic and to counteract the secular trends of the time, which was consolidated in the Franco dictatorship and religious support and native to it, which spread to other Latin American dictatorships and opened the free market economy with the technocrats of recent governments of dictatorship, and now feel comfortable with the current political and economic trends, it seems clear that his main interest is the support at school with more economic power in society, always with a religious component of the most conservative, which also could be defined as a fundamentalist Christian.
All this suggests that the main interests of Opus are keeping themselves in positions of power, always with the desire to maintain the most reactionary trend and classic Catholic religious movement they represent. Moreover, in these moments are certain trends in the Catholic Church to have hegemony in the religious aspect of globalization that this plant, and this is where the Opus is a very important role to achieve, and have been placed in position placed to control it from within the same church. |
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| cazuelo |
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07 November de 2002 at 17:52:33
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| Ulysses, friend. The conclusion just stated about the interests of Opus Dei, as well as being riddled with all the topics to use overly simplistic paracer me. The "planet Opus" is far more complex than just lobby plots to regain power or high places of the Church. I agree that the work moves with ease in a traditional atmosphere, bourgeois and right (more moderate than extreme right), that does not averse to power or money (also in certain cases neceseitados helps, but not the general trend) , which over the years has become an important void in the Vatican curia. However, despite agreeing with this, your conclusion is very, very lame, in my opinion. Is the acquisition of that power, money, recognition, ecclesiastic an end in itself or an instrument that Opus Dei uses (with their special procedures) to spread Catholicism throughout the world? That would be one of the many questions that arise when I read your argument. For descgracia, I can not answer, auqnue I believe that the hierarchy of the Work and all members believe it is an instrument. Greetings.Cazuelo. |
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| Evaristo |
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07 November de 2002 at 20:22:53
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Buenaaaaaaaaas
"Getting power to extend or expand Catholicism Catholicism to gain power?
If I play bad, that's the clarification that recognizes Casserole can not solve. And I understand you, mate, because, coming into this dynamic, what came first, the chicken or the egg? The dilemma could be solved not ever, because I believe sincerely that is ill-posed. And if I had raised Escrivá and exposes the friend Ulysses, he was wrong from beginning to end, and Opus would not be today nor the cobs.
History has shown that the use of purely material interests is incompatible with spiritual perfection. And look who has been Cazurros who have tried (emperors, popes, political leaders, bankers ...) and their failures have been sounded. Escriva will be anything but foolish, and, I believe, the first founder of something that requires your institution does not have anything ... absolutely nothing (except the headquarters in Rome). And so it happened, hoping that more people (of Opus or not) have fallen a thousand companies and foundations that say "connected" with Opus (Mediterranean, Matesa, Rumasa ...). And another thousand to fall (Development, Rialp ...) Or someone thinks these things are eternal?
So we get into the crux of the matter: we identify "planet Opus" with all that fabric material that "supports" the apostolic. Some see the trick almendruco there. But if that network is going to hell ... Do you you play thousand euros to the Apostle who? Do you you play thousand euros to keep talking to people whistle?
The other major problem is the people themselves of the Work, who believe that these things are yours and confuse hunger with the desire to eat, I mean, for example, those Fellows, additions or supernumerary who are teaching in the cabbage Opus, which has already been mentioned in other discussions and do nothing but mess up because they think they are at home (not all do the same, thank God)
I remember big fights with people from home for such an affair.
PD: Fundamentalist Christianity and Opus Dei? Ulysses, pots and pans (and all ...), you urge "to discuss the matter?
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| Ulises |
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07 November de 2002 at 21:21:30
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I agree with you Casserole, Opus is more complex and the way I've described is simplistic, but could not be otherwise with limited time and expertise. All that can develop and also may be seeing some foundation topics and those who do not.
Without doubt, Opus wants to spread Catholicism, but we already know which is the practical part of what he means by Opus Catholicism.
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