| |
|
Author
|
The interests of the opus (3). Refrain from insulting |
Evaristo
|
7 tracks
initiated
148 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 17:24:58  
|
Not to censor, but refrain, as far as possible, insults on this list. It interests me reach the final at this in the interests of the Opus, and the two previous attempts have already been gentecilla charging the thread of the arguments. Insults, which will, in another list (the one that interests you, that create new, and we'll put all to give birth) Here, arguments, humorous, and a speck of irony healthy (also abstain overly sensitive)
With so much hope does not rule alone.  And do not you come standard are so many memories in my brain ... opusdeístas
Returning to the last argument of the above list, I think it was Berto, the friend of children, stating that the interest of the Opus was the power and money "to mount and mount more centers attract more people live-where. It's like a wolf suckling her puppies so that they reproduce and have more wolves "
But that, I believe, is neither an end nor an interest in itself. More Centers ... Why? Cohabitation ... Why? Cubs ... Why?
Really, I reiterate that I am most interested in reaching the ultimate end of the matter.
Yes I agree as the figurehead of the Father, or at least partially. I guess it's more institutional or representative office. In an organization as large, it is logical. I do not think you read all the letters of pitaj (¿Ande will walk?) But remember that every month he wrote a letter with the main guidelines for action.
Greetings
|
|
| Berto |
1 tracks
initiated
54 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 17:53:39
|
| Hi Evaristo. As I see Berto, the friend of children, and I feel very good that you have founded this new section. Also Escriva founded Opus Dei. And Jose Antonio, the Falange. They are only examples. This is a very interesting to know what to do with such letter. Do the store? Will sell weight? Are recycled? What is the wolf I think that the Work's mission playback. In every way. But I think we are so hot stories donkeys between cash and auxiliaries. I refer to the reproduction of itself, of the work, to have more and more people. And the temporary, since these do you think you can hot stories between temporary and supernumerary. And do not go on because this is going to seem a cybersex channel. Berto would not own, the friend of children. For now aest well. Congratulations on your foundation, Evaristo. |
|
| lucy |
5 tracks
initiated
36 messages
posted
common |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 18:54:42
|
I agree with your assumptions Evaristo. And I adhere to them at face value, provided that the "rabid dogs" do not want to bite the horse of Don Quixote ...
In my opinion, and anyone who disagrees disputing my arguments seriously and not insulted, Opus Dei has confused the Purpose and to understand its operation and inconsistencies must first understand what is the theological and religious foundation of the organization.
Theological-Religious Thought that nourishes the ends and means.
The preacher for the Opus Dei are supported by a pre-conciliar religious thought. Why pre-Vatican II? Because it is rule opus to the Mass in Latin, women can not confess to the priest looking confessionals but hermetic, because usually pray Prayers of the most archaic of the Council of Trent, the Angelicum Trisagium. This states that anyone who professes no religion Catholic, Apostolic and Roman were not spared. Those who do not profess and believe the message and divinity of Jesus through the Catholic, Apostolic and Roman, is doom.
At the same time is well known for tantrums and indigestion strong that type of balaguer suffered when he listened to John XXIII and Paul VI speaking about the necessary renewal of the Church through Vatican II. Several well-known former Fellows participated in internal meetings where viciously insulted Write these Holy Fathers, they say they were the devil, Freemasons, Communists, and even homosexuals.
I could go with the basics of pre-conciliar religious thought of the opus, but I would extend far and you have time to elaborate on the subject.
Building on this basic thought, there is an end to achieve:
Re-thinking estaur preconciliar dogmatic in the Catholic masses astray by communism first (coinciding with the founding of Opus) and then Vatican II theology of liberation, capitalist debauchery (sexual, non-economic, etc.). As fortunately the "mass" church always is ahead of the restored structure, the opus - top-down in thought and structure - it has no way to get it to impose its hegemonic thought through master the Vatican. This sounds so funny and something Synarchism, reality has shown us that is real. From there the infighting between factions in the departments and the intimate surroundings of the Pope who wants to run like the opus as the Cardinals and monsignors closest advisers to the Pope are the opus. The Spokesman of the Pope, Navarro waltz which also manages the daily Osservatore Romano, "Martinez Somalo, Ratzinger, etc. are some of the famous opus.
FIN entoces, while the screen becomes as wonderful Christian message is a goal of conquest, conversion and exchange, but of others. They have nothing to change. They have the absolute truth and the rest of the world, literally, who must accept their rules and accommodate them.
But the Catholic Christian world, which consists of millions of people, and ignores it when entoces opus "excommunicated him. (Now back to convict remarried who want to commune ...)
And there are ongoing struggles imposition of ideas and forms in the church dome.
In short, the end we felt that once noble individuals who preached the opus: Sanctifying Work and do everything to the Lord, based on Jesus, "Love your neighbor as yourself." The trocar instuticion what many people put in the bag so well put more pressure on the Vatican, (get personal Prelature), and be listened to and need. And this, together with succulent money contributions to climb faster. (and sanctified them write ...)
In this opus dei I will fight until death and in the words of Miguel de Unamuno: "is a work of infinite mercy denounce deception"
Health!!  |
|
| Berto |
1 tracks
initiated
54 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 19:20:29
|
Berto'm Lucy, the friend of children. Brava exposure. In the live-do not explain these things. I do not like to pray in Latin. I will not deviate. Imagine that the opus was already made with the Vatican. Imagine if booed the Cardinals. And those who were banished. The world is divided into two: those in Madrid and Barça. The Opus and Opus do not want to say. I do not know what was I thinking. Faced with this eventuality what? The Work of the enthroned in the chair of St. Peter and the rest scattered and without much faith, nothing organized. I can not imagine such a situation. What do the Work?
Or worse I'm going to make. Imagine that everyone is already Opus Dei. Go retreats, eh?. I would always think a critical part because the good can only be explained with the bad. Not everyone can be in A because A itself would be meaningless. Need a B. I do not think that moment never came. What a drag. Instead of getting up and making toast in the English Court, a meditation. In all cities. As priests quietly. A mess. What do you think lucy? |
|
| marc |
1 tracks
initiated
77 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 20:43:50
|
hello they speak in Chinese, Japanese, are not understood anything, but I think it not only commented that Berto does not have a clue ...
But to begin to believe that the founder is a decorative figurine, dear friends have no idea about anything, and I will not repeat what they already know and who would criticize as the founder of Opus Dei Opus Dei saw in his retirement in Madrid ... ...... The founder of Opus Dei was no figurative person and ask, you may think that a figurehead can fill Rome with 380,000 people.
The aim of Opus Dei is not using up the Vatican, the aim of Opus Dei is to serve the Church as the Church must be served, that is what happened in these last years and it is true that the Pope was an admirer of the Work, but Notice that the Pope friends years ago and never comes in the ceremonies to the End of Via de la Conciliazione to St Peter's Square and this year at the Canonization did, and not another if they saw the Pope on the day of action thanksgiving invite a Patriarch, and he did just that day of people filled the square, Pope astute, he knows that Opus supports it. Now back to the purpose of serving the Church, the world has many needs and we must recognize that talking about priests of the work are very well trained and obviously the pope has sought assistance provided to Don Alvaro and Don Javier, remember how two friends of mine left everything in one day to travel to Kazahstan not (can not remember as you write, pardon) when I call the Father, the Pope and Catholic priests needed there and I call the Father, the other day 4 persons traveling to there to rebuild the Church. And that is good availability of the work generates anger, jealousy, but they know in the Work as to serve ....... and there is nothing better than that sentence (fact I would say my friends here) .. in the Work must be carpet for others tread softly and not be so difficult.
The sole purpose of Opus is to serve the Church as the Church must be served
|
|
| Berto |
1 tracks
initiated
54 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 21:11:43
|
| Hello, I'm Marc Berto, the friend of children. One must see that genius. Because of that he was a gruff whisper. Possibly he has no idea. I really only understand football and politics. Like all. So what I do in a forum of Opus Dei? I'm going, that I have to think. Then I reply. |
|
| Lola2002 |
12 tracks
initiated
179 messages
posted
veteran |
|
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 22:07:51
|
"Serving the Church as she wants to be served" Thanks Marc!, This is another famous phrases (go to another subject, but I just remember him)
One question: who says how you want to be served? The opus?
Lola
icq: 172943141
|
|
| ex-agd |
1 tracks
initiated
28 messages
posted
common |
| |
|
Published
13 November de 2002 at 23:24:53
|
hi all!
hey marc that much exposure, it certainly draws attention to how the potatoes are worth a lot of work on the needs of the church and if you doubt in some respects may notice some preference, but maybe could be interpreted as signs of appreciation for what the Church get OD ...
"as it should be served" lola2002 good question of who decides? maybe if we interpreted what I have said Xto "id the world and preach the gospel" and go and bring the world closer to God, the work would be serving his apostolate ...
Well, this is a personal ...
as the father, according to him that if so, would not have met so many people on the p. de sn pedro ...
Greetings,
|
|
| clio |
0 tracks
initiated
6 messages
posted
recent |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 01:51:49
|
Lucy, congratulations for your very clear explanation, I fully agree. Berto, friend of children, do not leave your sense of humor is just great and your "healthy irony" as called Evaristo.
greetings
Clio |
|
| Evaristo |
7 tracks
initiated
148 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 02:49:27
|
I will not be denied carca gale that characterizes the Opus. I will not be denied the pleasure by the traditions of Escriva. But if it comes down to say Mass in Latin, and three customs more because I see nothing wrong with that. I can assure you that the Latin Mass is said in most places, where they are not just Opus. But be fair, we must also point out a flash progressive. Note that in the Latin Mass used by the priests of the Roman canon opus, despite that new charges of ritual were written by nearly 80% Don Alvaro del Portillo.
I stand for a moment what the confession of women. Me neither convinces me that way (but not for me to say) Now, I think that more than one priest unpresentable should implement this method, then come with that if the grandmother smoked, if this priest is not my father, or matters worse.
"Several well-known former Fellows participated in internal meetings where viciously insulted Write these Holy Fathers, they say they were the devil, Freemasons, Communists, and even homosexuals" If such is the mania of Escriva by Pope, do not understand how you claim then that's closest advisers are the holy father's Opus. Or is it just John Paul II? Since then find the end of Opus is "Re-thinking estaur preconciliar dogmatic in the Catholic masses astray by communism first (coinciding with the founding of Opus) and then Vatican II theology of liberation, debauchery capitalist (sexual, non-economic) "guess JPII accuse of the same. That is, it is also preconciliar, but Paul VI, no.
Some grace the Pope makes me "liberal" publication of the Humanae Vitae, and Pope uptight fundamentalist schism was breaking out (Lefebvre)
But finally, something we've come and it seems clear that the purpose of Opus are reduced exclusively to the religious sphere.
|
|
| iggy |
8 tracks
initiated
91 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 03:19:43
|
Hola Marc
Oops ... I do that I had no illusions that in this forum at least we had the presence of an active member of Opus Dei, for he thought were temporary, and it turns out I just read that you are simply a cooperator. Go Marc disappointed I said that already we did not we have high hopes for the visit of many members of the work on this corner of cyberspace Cio Cio.
Finally, I will answer to something very specific that you said You said Marc OD is to serve the Church as the Church wants to be served. OK, a very beautiful phrase we have all heard many times.
But even the pretty phrases must be thought and we must reflect upon them. Particularly if they are used to prove or argue anything. It would be very comfortable for some, that by being a beautiful and well known phrases and were automatically the truth.
"As the church wants to be served ..." We all know who founded the church: Jesus Christ. Something does not block me. Jesus Christ is God, and God made us free and has given us all a conscience, which is sacred. I guess it is because God wants us to act at all times according to her. That's what gave it to us. Well - at least that was my experience in the RE coercion exercised on the conscience of people of good will (of course not saying that is exercised over all, but on some). And what's worse, children.
This can have very serious consequences for a person. The theme of vocation is crushed the lives of many people because it is very serious. I can say I've been lucky. All that antidepressant drugs or I have not lived, because I needed them, thank God.
read testimonials here are the members who have already left. I fear that many people in the work that is not happy but remain convinced that there must continue. Some get out, others not. (no doubt others are calling and are really happy in the OD) Did they come all the work without any pressure on their consciences?
Marc, I have not yet heard your opinion about the problem of coercion to raise young people's vocation. Are not you concerned about this issue? I understand that not all data have to say. You're just a helper and have not had the experience of having 14, 15, 16, etc. years and that people who have earned your confidence, in many ways-you say that what God had intended from eternity to you is that you cash. Marc, you have not felt the weight that it can have on your conscience.
iggy  |
|
| lucy |
5 tracks
initiated
36 messages
posted
common |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 04:50:22
|
Continue:
The aim of Opus is take over the Vatican. This has already been made but now you can not rest on its laurels and is the hardest part: Keep the power achieved.
How will you keep? Must take each year more adept at St. Peter's Square. And how will acquire more people every year?
Need to expand their networks of action particularly in education. Muuuchos colleges need to "train" the children of the Temporary muuuhos.
These poor creatures are educated in schools where there is no free thought, in fact all colleges and universities are governed bibliographically opus by the INDEX (the list of banned books that inaugurated the Church for centuries). Go messes that were assembled here in Argentina in the Schools Los Molinos, Buen Ayre and the Southern University by these impositions Inquisition!
These chicks wet "who were out the capacity for discernment since children are" paipita for the parrot "or" breeze "for Opus.
In short to keep the power they wield in the domed Vatican needs to increase the number but with people "meek" is the only way left to them to limit defections and grow. As you will see one of the obsessions of opus numbers are either in euros, Swiss francs, dollars and people ...
Evaristo, is very simple to know which is the power for the opus and its modus operandi. Moreover, for the Latin, I did not understand my point. Usually prayer in Latin and also in Sanskrit, but when I want to do it and put all my devotion. I do not to defend any status quo.
For me, I conclude my participation in this topic.
|
|
| pepe |
12 tracks
initiated
36 messages
posted
common |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 14:14:44
|
| http://opusdei.faithweb.com/ |
|
| Evaristo |
7 tracks
initiated
148 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 15:20:15
|
Look, Lucy, is it really seriously believe that people of Opus comes as demanding to fill the Plaza de San Pedro? If you are so smart and so powerful they could mount a league champion.
The "networks" extend in schools: Is this an indictment of the Church or Opus? And it was the Church that invented the Universities. Apart from that, not all colleges admit only children opus of supernumeraries, not all supernumerary have their children in schools in the Opus. That I can assure you.
Do not know of one sect to seek education initiatives. Besides the fact that the law would not allow it, college is the best deal. But of course, is to "increase the number but with people" meek "is the only way left to them to limit defections and grow" I mean, there are more members under age people who persevere. As they grow, they all go. Do you have any information to confirm? If so, by sheer statistics, Opus would not have lasted two news programs, or would have filled the Plaza de San Pedro. If so, would not result never the famous tablets of spoken elsewhere.
True, it is very simple to know the power that seeks to Opus. The tricky part is to see how they do not understand some @ s.
I worry about your last statement, are not you more involved? "Gone are the arguments? Is not interested in this forum to get to the ultimate consequences?
|
|
| Berto |
1 tracks
initiated
54 messages
posted
veteran |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 15:42:57
|
| Evaristo Hello, hello lucy. They call me Berto, the friend of children. One must see that more educated people are. The one prays in Latin. The other, in Sanskrit. In private, of course. I only speak Castilian and some Hungarian gibberish. The same is not Hungarian, but Catalan. Total, for which I serve. The priest, growling softly spoke the live-in Castilian only. Officiated in Latin. I thought it was July in honor of Cesar. The of the Gauls and the Wars. The fights we put them in Castilian. The director also. Why not speak Sanskrit? Now I know. Or Hungarian?. "Opus Dei promotes only one way to understand culture? I welcome your idea of the Champions Division. Where should I sign? Can you sign in Hungarian?. Bye. |
|
| pepe |
12 tracks
initiated
36 messages
posted
common |
| |
|
Published
14 November de 2002 at 17:17:53
|
Friend of children,
It's not my website.
|
|
|
There are 2
pages of post: 1 
Close this topic
moderated forum