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Responsibilities to whistle |
cefas
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03 December de 2002 at 12:55:43  
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Around that time did not write anything. Today I read some posts on the forum and reminded me of my entry and exit opus. I know that having a spiritual director has a goal of aid, no pressure, and the director has a responsibility with the advice he gives. And do not say anything about the constraints that can play. Which does not abrogate the responsibilities addressed. The worst thing you could do is not consulting more trustworthy people not to work outside the beep. The whistle for testing, tracking in the play despite seeing things that went against conscience. Of course things were not going so well and end up worse. It is true that the directors and the people around you never wanted to see if progress towards God was real or was based on a trust what you were told. It is also true that you never talk about this with good people outside the opus, by shame and fear, which follows the easy way to do what I say in House and feel that you look good. Do not you strive to find out where it came from that restlessness in my soul. Obviously passes like so many others are not prepared to whistle for lack of love of God. And there's more. That does not mean that gradually grows, but always with personal initiative. We all know that pressure on a person, urging vanity, (you're a great person, you have virtues ...) and arrogance (pudes do incredible things if pitas, you depend on many great things), is quite harmful, but it is of an influence so large that you can not say no. I scandalized the ex-cash / sexual problems to the Opus, or such other things that were repressed in the background. Nobody came and inquired for help on this problem (very bad on the other hand), but neither did much to leave it. Until something that makes him very interested in breaking those commitments, and falls in a more notorious as it was doing before. With a partner, money, ect ... But the origin of everything is almost always overestimate my love for God, take me to crazy about the commitments with him, ect .., along, of course, with the desire to find fresh pitaj directors.
Now I have renewed hopes for God and follow my way to him but without forgetting that the real harm that I did was just the address to something that was not willing to do, and that separated me from God, and I consented to all this. Ojito with what everyone assumes!, In the end this if it sets a bad roll. (Pilate also pressed). A greeting:
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| pusey-2 |
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10 December de 2002 at 12:58:46
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Hello again Peter,
I can speak for myself. I also acknowledge that I blame whistle, rather, beep me (or let me love). Then, one day after returning from Torreciudad, (where I proposed it, with this dialogue:
- I have to think about it, because it's my life .- "But your life is yours or is God? Was that before claudiqué what if God was asking me = Opus)
I told the director, who before the trip I had suggested having a vocation, not seen clearly. He replied: "He who puts his hand to the plow and looks back is not worthy of Me." Claudiqué again.
Then, teach me to do a talk, something new, since previously only what I knew was the spiritual direction with the priest, which I did very well, told me he had to play whenever issues of faith, purity and VOCATION.
In this regard the Founder said we should remove any doubt about his head like a vocation to the faith and purity, thus came to equate in practice as a serious matter. Also claudiqué that.
Days passed, and came the fifth year. I could not resist more. I put the priest I wanted to go. I said: No, I, for example, only quiet if I would work to tell me. Also claudiqué that.
Then came the sixth year. He saw more clearly than I could be of the Work, even when I was pressed apostolate. A month before 19 March, when touch me and move on to the fidelity. Before my doubts, I made a prayer before the Lord: Be whatever you want.
I come at that time the director: "It is thought that will not do loyalty and we will send to another facility, because if you have a vocation, but as a supernumerary (I was added)" I then I begin to mourn as a cupcake Now he thinks he had a vocation. I mention this to the person to whom did the talk, she begins to mourn too (had not consulted)
I go to the priest: well, now you'll feel better, going out through the front door and we've seen have no vocation. Gee, wonder, the director told me to do temporary. Not answer me and says goodbye to me.
I go to the temporary center. I met the priest at the center, which I knew from a retreat and asks me, in secret, You ... but what is he doing here? I explain my situation, oh well ... I say without interest.
Me included with support for a chat and I will meditations. But I see no interest for me or for attending the extra (they are young and not invite me to their plans, maybe taking away their opportunity to link ...) or by the director, who seems rather endure my presence otherwise.
I decide to leave the center, no, do not go, "says the director ... but I forced her words, for trade.
In short, moral: when I saw that I no longer wanted was when I decided to quit completely. I was guilty of dependence. They, of using it. |
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| javier |
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11 December de 2002 at 04:51:03
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Pusey and Hi Peter, I am glad to locate you again for the forum, I have not really participated much but I visit fairly often.
Look, in my time talking about the mid-70s - was almost no information that one could obtain of Opus Dei (I mean the unofficial). Now, there are books, web pages and this forum to learn, so I hope that those who are curious about life in the OD read carefully the evidence presented here and think well what it means joining the Opus Dei.
Well, like many so many, I was told to sign the letter of admission and over time I was going to adapt (as I once said, was like signing a blank check). The celibacy is perhaps the only thing that was more or less raised when Pite, but can a 14 be thinking about getting married? Obviously not. I say that as Cephas induced me to make commitments that he was not willing to do or at least did not have the maturity necessary nor a full and objective information to take them.
Again a greeting for all. |
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| Invitado |
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11 December de 2002 at 12:55:37
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Hello I am Tanit,
Few, if any, responsibilities does a girl of 15 years pitar.Y more when at 16 she is sent to 600 km from home to study center or factory numerarias.Y at 18 the deputy on a show bachelors club.
Everything came Roda. We are introducing in their particular and complex system of moral standards in open competition to achieve its goals, such as the pitajes.Y not look at anything. Logically discernimiento.Y lose the ability to live in a dedicated fan to stop to rethink opus.Nunca or criticize nada.Eso is more q. penalizado.Y already taught you from 15 years to do so.
At no time have I felt responsible nor my pitaj, or what I still within the opus (pitable pressure the press at q. want to leave). I was not me, it was a great piece of machinery opus . always manipulated and mediated with the concepts of love of God, spirit of the Work and other tricks.
I remember perfectamente.Cara frightened girl of 16 years, skirts below the knee and hand luggage in a train station, bound for the q. without knowing it would be my training and intensive introduction to the workings of the opus. Pathetic.
Tell me q. kind of responsibility does a girl q. has been abducted by a cult. Let's be serious this issue is serious and can not ask no liability to anyone q. has suffered in his body, mind and soul, brutal means q. sectas.Independientemente use certain age, although Ovbio is most severe in the case of minors. Q.com read on the forums was our case.
Here the only q. has a very heavy responsibility is Opus Dei.Q.basándose in our love for God healthy, they were twisting and manipulating to make it an unhealthy love of God, making us believe q. opus = love of God's love. We went believing in a God and we believe in a monster opus god ..
Greetings,
tanit
P.D. Anybody know commotion can consult previous forums? Thanks. |
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| pusey-2 |
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12 December de 2002 at 02:22:15
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Tanit, on consulting on previous forums, I do not know if you want to see past discussions. To do this, click on the "General", on the same page of the forum that you have entered, the top.
And from there you can go backward topics.
On the other hand, tanit, your experience as a director I think the first level. So let me ask you, how to circulate information that members give talks on their captors fraternal. I ask because it seems indicative of the lack of intimacy that is lacking.
Also, people who gets to direct souls, have some serious training in asceticism, psychology, even moral, for their performance.
I would find it very illuminating your information.
I also wish I could provide us an e-mail, any mail account to send poderte some documentation that I can interest you. |
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| Ulises |
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12 December de 2002 at 10:50:45
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| From my point of view, having been a member of Opus has some ethical responsibilities can not be ignored (the materials are another matter), these responsibilities may be different depending on what each of you has touched do while inside. It is true that Young was able to enter and manipulating and that once inside could reach brainwashed suffer full-blown, but I believe the only way out of a sect is totally recognize your own actions from an objective point of view and to achieve this is to go through all the stages necessary for deprogramming. So when exopus any belligerence or even demonstrating some grudge against that organization, I think you're on the road way out of it, while sympathetic to note my impression that either have a long way to go completely or intend to continue to exploit the advantages of having good relations with Opus. |
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| javier |
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12 December de 2002 at 18:09:19
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Responsibilities for whistle?
What responsibility should my 13 year old daughter if I gave him my car keys to undertake a long trip? Who would be the responsibility when an accident happens?
... Of course mine, in this case who gave the car keys. In any case, the little girl would blame for my advice?, But ... she does not trust her father?
Take the example because at that time we place confidence in who we thought were close to God (we thought they were something like official spokesmen of the sky) and finally sent us a "road to nowhere" (the phrase we mine opusdei see . port5.com), took advantage of our noble heart and in many cases destroyed lives, others had to be restarted at a high cost.
Greetings to all. |
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| volo |
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12 December de 2002 at 21:41:39
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Dear Pusey-2, I also was added, but a little longer (about 25 years). Regarding what questions Tanith can tell you that all important information of the talks, summarized and gently passed to the local council that gives appropriate instructions for each case. Regarding the preparation you have, I'll tell you what you most is supposed to have "good spirit" and of course take some time in the RE and, if possible faithfulness you have done. I in the first talks I received was more nervous than I was going to do it, then get used to it and sees that nothing is new under the sun and all the talks with hues are similar, except in moments or processes going off and giving advice you have given to you or that you have indicated in the study periods in cl.
In another message you mentioned Retegui Antonio Ruiz, I knew him for many years and did not know I was dead (sorry). Not tried much but I thought it was pretty smart and well prepared in philosophy and theology.
Un abrazo
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| Ulises |
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13 December de 2002 at 09:50:43
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| I'm not saying that a person of 13 years has responsibility for entering the Opus if your entire environment has forced it to, what I meant is that a person coming out of Opus as an adult can not shift all the responsibility of what the has done in that time who forced him to enter. In my opinion, good things tend to seek to justify all those years of your life and blame everything that does not like the organization, but that organization is made up of individuals and these individuals have a responsibility as well that had the that was in and out. So I think that a person shall not be outside the influence of Opus until they admit their responsibilities and overcome. |
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| Invitado |
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15 December de 2002 at 20:54:46
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Hello I am Tanit, not q. about this q. I say q. registrada.Y when I'm not going to let me register either.
Ulises, I left the opus with 37 years and not feel responsibility for my actions while in the opus, and yet I am not at all tied to ellos.Insisto that can not be blamed for anything at a lower q. has been abducted by a cult.
Of course q. The opus is composed of people, but you should bear in mind q. ALL of these people have been brainwashed y. .. only understand the responsibilities q. they have for the opus.
I understand q. not understand this if one has not lived in his own skin, bone if you have never belonged to the opus, as is the case.
Pusey-2 with respect to your question about using q. is the content of the talks fraternal support what q. volo said. I add q. if q. no prior preparation. For numeraries have q. have made the race of Theology (Theology screened by the opus).
And the directors of the delegation and the other over directors, those of Madrid, we gave talks circles or illustrative of the volo said tema.Aunque as well, so q. more prevalent at the time of giving you this assignment, is the "good spirit" of sujeto.Q. not have the slightest crack about alienating the opus philosophy.
All who receive lectures have to report them to one of the directors of the local council. And in turn the manager has to account for all directed at the local council. This usually consists of 3 people: director, deputy and secretary. The local council has a schedule of topics for treatment in their meetings. Q. On Talks touched fraternal, or persons q. care and so on., openly discussed the privacy of the person q. you bring unscrupulously. There exhaustive writing a screenplay of items to play with regard to privacy of the form q. miembros.De all local council is aware of q. fulanita masturbates, has q.la other impure thoughts or q. another is determined to read this book banned necessary for his career.
volo you say q. gently explained, if you mean at ways if q. are delicate: the text must be well written. But the fact that q. aerate your privacy lacks any subtlety. It amounts to a violation of the respect and freedom of persona.Por put small example.
And when the script requires it - admission, sacrifice, loyalty, or when someone gets out of hand on the dome-is drawn on paper and sent to some directors q. directors are q. tú.Directoras of the delegation, directors of the regional government of Spain and the central government in Rome.
These writings are quite sad and horrifying. Cosa q. The opus is aware and q. when sent by "mail" to the government q. you send the text is appropriate in an envelope with a key and the name of the person otro.El "e" is always carried in his hand, before embarking on the trip to give you a set of instructions for q. come to fruition.
Then there is the matter of using q. made the privacy of members on confession and talk with the priest. And as always there's opus has been very clever. From the moment q. You talk to the priest every x time (if I remember correctly at first weekly and then monthly), and the same priest confession weekly and do two things at the same event, things are confused. There have gained the upper hand and q. do not care to distinguish carefully between q. q. what is confession is the talk. Total q. to end the school's director talks to the priest of these people and comes out whole, without distinction of any use alguna.Y becoming. Perfect move.
For today I q. enough. Greetings to all.
tanit
Pusey PD-2 thanks for your directions, I have already clarified.
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| Lola2002 |
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15 December de 2002 at 22:41:17
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Tanit, is impressive that you have everything ... I love reading your stories and experiences .... Please contanos as those without a local meetings copnsejo in tone that they speak, they say, and that opinions issued before the "problems" members, that attitudes take after they learned numeraries involved with .... etc, etc ...
And will also more than coded messages and personal mail (something I read in the book of Ma del Carmen Tapia)
Another curiosity: 2 numeraries that speak when they have the opportunity to do it alone? That way they speak?
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| tanit |
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16 December de 2002 at 20:29:31
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Lola, try to widen you more information. The case is q. q. wounds I thought I already closed the open when I thought forever closed.
I just started reading the book Women in Opus Dei by Isabel de Armas. Reading as he lived two years of study center I have been fully reflected in their experiences. And that q. our circumstances were very different. She 20 years, studying journalism and more world q. I. I studied 16 years of high school 6th. She was critical and I was not yet formed thought. I do not know of anything this woman and yet if we were to meet would have many points in common. Have surfaced to my skin memories and feelings of that time. An amazing willingness to apprehend all q. taught. And as great a capacity to submit uncritically, by sheer force of will, at orders from the "father" and several directors. For I love having undergone the flock with countless directors and staff.
Have emerged in the humiliations, the loneliness so great in the q. you were. Without any possibility to have a friend in or outside of Opus Dei, even with your family, sisters and brothers. In this latter will tell q. from just 16 years I saw my brothers. And when I say just is q. was almost nil. Every 3 to 5 years saw one of my brothers. On the occasion of q. one of them, he came to see me. Never left my initiative to see us. I was a child with very "good spirit" and lived only for proselytization.
I crushed self-esteem. Your emotion was the swaying of the achievements: standards met, number of fraternal correction, money, and especially pitaj. If you whistled at the center 10 girls in one year, the directors appeared from under the stones for alagarte.
If you were spending another season chunga and your center only had problems: economic or loyalty, I ballooned to letters, notes and gloomy meditations and incendiary of the Delegation chief priest.
I remember the meditations q. night gave us the eve of the most important festival. The priest made us laugh or mourn at your leisure. So I took you to the 7th heaven, as then you down to hell and so humbly submit to their maximum. If you ever looked out the critical spirit, I say q. were an immature, q. you lacked supernatural vision and quickly fell you with one of his maxims of obedience to the Father "They can be wrong. In obedience, you never "So q. all to obey and continue with the deception.
I stop because I have stretched a bit. I answer other day right?
Pusey-2 have my e-mail in the list of registered. Nice to q. send me things.
Saludos,
tanit
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| Ulises |
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17 December de 2002 at 11:35:05
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Very touching your experience tanit, as I read I started to feel bad even myself. just imagine the situation.
On the subject of responsibilities, you mean that no member of Opus have ethical responsibilities for their actions?-Nor the bottom or the top of the pyramid?-Nor numeraries and supernumeraries?-Nor by manipulations and internal constraints, or for actions taken in their outside activities?. |
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| tanit |
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17 December de 2002 at 17:59:23
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Ulises,
I actually do not feel any responsibility for my life in there, or my acts done during those años.Yo at least not feel them. The fact of being part of an organization q. techniques used subtly us tight control sectarian and psychologically I came to be a cog in the gears of the machine opus dei.
Now I am under the spell q.no opus and I have freedom of thought, perhaps I should feel bad about other members applied the same techniques q. I was taught and practiced with me. And yet I find logical q. I act that way, I had planned for it and had no choice but physically or mentally.
No, perhaps not clear but is q. is very complicated. The case is q. I feel perfectly calm. Do not q. will happen to other former members.
In short, you could say q. ethical responsibility for your actions both internally and externally is identified with the ethos of the opus itself. If q. do is approved by the opus is ethically correct, and if not, then no.Así simple.
Again, this is what I feel, not the Derm. Q. As I lived in there until it q. I knew we all had that pattern of behavior. I went from being a director of the local council. If not q. belonged to the Delegation would like advice Other Regional datos.Así turn submitted to the Central Advisory and is going to padre.Evidentemente as leveling up is shuffled more information, but as I did not live in them I can not speak. I guess q. is at the maximum level of command-the father and his cronies where this great mentira.Y cooked the others in a successive chain of submissions it will earnestly abide by and putting into practice.
Ulysses, not if you mean this. Please tell me.
Greetings,
tanit |
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| Ulises |
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18 December de 2002 at 13:31:12
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| I understand your approach, tanit, while you were properly submitted to the ethical Opus was to fulfill what I told you no more, and out and realize it is not so you do not feel guilty because you thought were absorbed by them absolutely, without free will . I understand that, but I ask myself: How far does that lack of accountability of members of Opus?, What if you do something illegal you can say that it was brainwashed as a mitigator?, "Supernumeraries who commit economic crimes, in collusion with their spiritual advisers, also are brainwashed and are blameless?. There are many cases which might explain that unfortunately occur frequently, and that makes me doubt that the brainwashing that occurs in Opus can justify all the actions that are performed while a member. |
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| tanit |
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18 December de 2002 at 21:34:34
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Ulises,
not answer it honestly. I do not know as far as the opus to avoid dependence responsabilidades.No where the limit is.
I q. if I tell you is q. with respect to the subject of money, were more q. laxos.No was frowned upon to evade taxes. People q. internal works had never paid us a salary and Social Security. From the age of 22 q. I was inside, took to 13 the inner workings. My working life remains minimal. Q. On I retire I'll find the joke.
Speaking of illegality. Should q. know q. the doctor had temporary responsibility of the city's general medicine in the q. I lived, q. own medicines prescribed by a psychiatrist. I do not mean a aislado.No anxiolytic. Autenticos treatments in which a person came to take 12 pills a day.
I guess q. this subject will continue within the opus and doing the same.
Should q. ask el.Aunque presumably q. q.com will think that contributes to q. opus people be happier and have better espíritu.Y as you drive your ademáslos directors work being more patient, that can not be illegal.
Asi q. Ulysses put me dificil.El opus control is so strong q. may be able to get to graze illegally.
Greetings,
tanit |
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