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Reforms for the Opus Dei |
javier
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03 December de 2002 at 23:54:50  
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Since this issue, now begun, was lost by the change of server, here goes back to those who might be interested.
If we call a commission to reform the Holy See, Opus Dei would propose?
The fact is that for a group of people Opus is fine as it is, someone else would seem that it makes no sense and maybe there is a third group thinks that the OD can be saved by reforming some things.
Here are some suggestions:
1.What is the entry age of at least the age of majority at 18 years and age of the offering at 25.
2. That directors have an obligation to give well-written and clear the rights and obligations which the applicant would be assuming if you sign the letter of admission.
3. Clearly indicating a trial period (length, number of years) where they put an option to leave the Work at any time without being labeled an immature or unfaithful.
4. There is a right of free communication, privacy mail, etc.
5...
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| Berto |
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08 December de 2002 at 21:23:35
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Hello, Javier. I am Berto, the friend of children. Look where today I am going to apply the lessons at Work. One thing they have to serve, I say. We were taught that in the fall, we must "begin again and again." Well worth it. The forum reappeared but the blackout was carried forward this theme, which I was certainly proud to have put aside my two cents. I gained self-esteem, so to speak. Well, I will try to repeat what I think would have to reform the Opus Dei. I will not repeat to the letter because I am not a machine. And look at the Opus Dei who insisted it was like a machine. Well if you want rice, Catherine.
As I was saying. The system for collecting, call proselytizing for easily shocked, of the work with young people is to try to get them, either of cash or of aggregates. So every young person who appears by a center of Opus Dei or club will receive the link for membership whistle celibate. I do not know if it is written. But that's my father well in practice. Very few young people (I'm talking about 16-17-18-19 and 20 years) which is proposed to be supernumerary, unless some exceptional cirscunstancias advisable.
Well. My reform (or advice they would give) is that the procedure was exactly the opposite captor. That is, every youth who frequent the centers, clubs and discos of the Work to which you see with skills is offered in principle be Supernumerary Supernumerary and nothing but. What of the clubs was a little joke that I eintroducido in my story to make it more bearable.
So that the clubs, according to Reform Berto, the friend of children would result in all work centers can expect plenty of young supernumeraries without further attend obligacones schools to receive the Circles, Lectures, making its confession and always something else more related to its formation. Their way of life, somo Supernumerary that their studies would be normal, your football or sports, her dates with girls and girls of her age, her entertainment in cinemas, combined with the Christian life itself of supernumeraries. Of these boys and girls have some that supernumerary show a greater willingness and enthusiasm to deliver more of their time to God. Then and only then, would, s ccording to their circumstances to be cash and aggregates. As before youth have led a normal life, nobody can say that their commitment is not taken freely, ignorant of what life is. I think everyone in Opus Dei would be more normal, it would end many of the secrets and would resolve allegations of recruitment of minors inexperienced. More freedom, in short.
I know because I've read that the founder urged that fast as Research an unmarried young kid because then they grow up is very difficult. I'm surprised, because if he really believes in God and think God's Work is from Him, for God nothing is difficult or impossible. Well, this is my reform. Ya me contaréis. Bye. |
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| Goro |
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08 December de 2002 at 23:04:50
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Hola a tod @ s, I am excited this reunion, for a minute gave me the impression that no longer read them again, but now that there are still good.
And now to the point, such as chicken.
Berto, I knew that behind those comments with some irony was hiding something more than, let's call ... trauma?, by short and grumpy that priest, (In fact, their commentary on the margin, "during your stay in the OD, healing will never change in your center?). Now that I have carefully read your opinion, it seems logical and reasonable, but ... in praxis, I have my doubts, as perhaps never see from your point of view of the OD. With your perseverance proposed rate would be higher, because as you say, the cash or the aggregates, as available, would make the decision to be so freely and without impositions, but in my case because I was never coerced and willingly and freely Pite knowingly, by reading other reviews, especially of girls and numerary numerary assistants, I felt that I belonged to another OD, calan comments and run deep, all these facts can not be anymore if there was more freedom of discernment .
Un abrazo fraternal. |
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| Berto |
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08 December de 2002 at 23:26:38
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Hi Goro. I am Berto, the friend of children. First things first. I'm not traumatized or orthopedist. I am, as I always say, the friend of children. If you want to take it, otherwise leave it.
The priest's little grumpy and is more complex. On several occasions we attempted to get rid of it. Always legitimate systems, of course. Do not try to wall it, for example. What happened is he had a buyout clause so high that there was no way to transfer it to another facility. He was grumpy, but very wise. Once I explained that clay containers with a spout jars are called. To note. What a greeting to him. And another one for you, Goro. Bye. |
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| Goro |
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10 December de 2002 at 07:27:52
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Hello Berto:
There is no doubt that your mood is special, for sure you were the soul of the gatherings, because now you are the soul of the forum. The truth is that you give the spark and the subtle touch of irony. Practice tolerance, which often misses here, especially when we read that some are questioning the individual and not a fair reason.
greetings from America.
Goro
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| volo |
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10 December de 2002 at 12:09:30
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Dear Berto, very interesting your proposal, but as the saying goes "there is nothing new under the sun." I say this because what you propose, but for other reasons and is being implemented since the early eighties, where large schools of San Rafael or Colleges Mayres existed and so-called supernumerary youth centers. This began in European countries where it was very shocking, in most cases, offer input total availability as cash or added. Super whistled life but the plan was increasing gradually to become very similar to a cash (except in the expense account and dealing with girls! Course!), But when students were all day stuck in the center, extracurricular activities, sports, etc.. hence not have much time for anything. Of these super, over time (not too) always had a few who went to Fellows. In Spain with the great social change of the 70 began to apply the same method with very buenmos results. These centers of S. Gabriel (with super young) had no contact with the older Super centers, all had separate training facilities, including C. retirement and Coexistence. But the danger began to come by elsewhere, and in these centers is that the young Fellows who saw the supernumeraries of age and fitted so well, began to raise their heads that they wanted to be like them, is becoming a supernumerary young. General alarm, trumpets and study centers in the separation between the two groups and treated with the supernumerary young and slightly older Fellows (the directors) but not with their age. As there will not be resolved in the end because I left. But I am sure that most supernumerary Research an increasingly young, thought that after passing a numerary.
Greetings |
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| 37 |
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10 December de 2002 at 22:46:30
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Really!, For the love of God, Really want to give advice to reform the Opus Dei?
Really?
For God's sake!
Is not that St. Josemaria said the idols can not have feet of clay because, however gold with the rest of the body, they would be on the rocks?
Y. .., are not mud bog, mud, Opus giant feet?
I hope it rains and it rains non-stop!
I was really just point to figure out how to release their catch clouded. But ..., how to show them to devise a formula Josemaria which make them easier to hold onto their spear fish? ("... When you see a fish you put in your height, with skill, ease, you shoot the harpoon shot, then caught it and finished ") ha!, My neurons will leave no one thought of that nature.
How could arise from your minds, with what we've been!, Such an idea?
 
Amapola |
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| Javier |
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10 December de 2002 at 23:52:26
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Hi Poppy, I really regret what has gone wrong that because of the Opus, which is why I understand your position.
I think it's a reality that reforms like those that might be offered here are almost impossible to apply to Opus closed at their organization, but why not dream of change things, to stop the injustice being committed in the name of God and "good spirit of Opus Dei?. Opus may disappear one day or declared outlawed by the church authorities? I do not know, in the meantime it would be better to change radically by order of the Vatican or by pressure of public opinion?, As I told a dream ...
Oh, and you really believe that the opus will take note of these things? I really doubt it very much, for they said that the founder is holy word. Opus has only known change in many ways, merely formal and not substantive as it is for example that women can wear pants, that the Mass facing the people, who call commitments to votes, and so on., It really does not give much hope for change.
All the best.
Saludos y un abrazo.
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| 37 |
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11 December de 2002 at 21:41:36
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To dream that things will change?
Javier sorry, but I have to call you naive.
As much as change, they will always be a method of his detention, the individual domain. Y. .., "for the sake of what? What a plot in Heaven? Do not enter the non-ditto the Opus? I think it will all just, and if so what advantage will that give their lives and mortify with sackcloth, disciplines, and so on., Over which they do so?
Is it so vengeful God who, by our ancestors eat an apple, we need to be repaired throughout life, with suffering and tears, his mistake?
All things considered, I believe that evil is the basis of religion that we have instilled. It is unfair that we are all mortals reproaching him the apple that makes us happy to be born with sin: original sin, and so is that we blame for the crime of the Jews who killed Jesus.
There is something in all that history does not fit God Do not know the present and the future? Then why allow them to kill his son? Why blame us out forever?
Y. .., "if he knew that the devil tempted Eve? Why the devil created? It was enough that he had shared his power with Lucifer. Is it not the devil made him because I wanted to be like him? Is not that a sin of pride?
I've left the topic, though, now that I realize: Do not want Opus have any power?
Are they in danger of being converted into Lucifers?
God forbid it, if being good is so ..., (you call them) what would be bad?
  
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| pusey-2 |
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12 December de 2002 at 02:10:07
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Poppy, I also ask myself these questions many times, which confirms to me that is important and that are at the root of the meaning of our lives.
Well, you could open another outside the general theme of the "evil".
On the reforms, I also am a dreamer wanting to reform the institution. But you've targeted the real problem: how it will be converted into the institution, but there is a conversion of people to go to confession every week saying "I am pushing one to hell, now it will not beep, but then when he hears that this is a ball ".
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| Berto |
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14 December de 2002 at 14:22:02
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Hello, Volo. I am Berto, the friend of children. Your information pleased me a lot. That is, that Opus Dei was already raised in his day to begin with supernumerary, later, of those super "out" cash and aggregates. But I assure you I am happy just as I am concerned. You say in your interesting story that the creation of youth clubs supernumerary concerns prompted the authors of the work they saw that Fellows of the same age as the young, so-sought access to the same status as them. To me that is indicative of something. Namely, if those Fellows that "envy" the position of the supernumerary young people had been convinced from the start of his own condition, would they have called the "transfer?" Were given to them (tenured) the opportunity to whistle as super subsequently passed to freely choose whether celibate members ?....
It is quite normal if the Work is undertaking a new strategy (promoting the pitaj only temporary) brush with the old methods to whistle by the celibacy rule young kid, because those who came so they can "claim" the same treatment. This occurs, obviously, any defection. Normal within what is meant by the definition of an organization.
Now. I'd like to draw attention to one aspect. Given these frictions caused by the temporary entry of young people, the Work, rather than hold the line and even make "concessions" to the Fellows who prefer to be in the position of young marriageable before being celibate for 17 years, Opus Dei is inclined to "hide" or "eclipse" that contained the supernumerary young (I'm basing all the time in the interesting testimony of Volo) and separate it from its "counterpart" cash. That is, can not face the burden of change. In the end, better single.
That Volo, agree with me that is neither reform nor anything. A little toast to the sun at one point in the end caved in the most shameful. I therefore insist on reform, so they say, is not new in theory, but that failed to be implemented effectively. Bye. |
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| pusey-2 |
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27 December de 2002 at 12:45:33
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On the training facilities:
"These training facilities filled with concretions 'practices', are somewhat overwhelming because they manifest implication that there is not no head nor freedom of the listeners. So what is considered" respect at people "focuses exclusively on delicate tone of the manner of expression-what some said it was putting "fresh voice" - and to lavish attention details of material type, as they would for dinner or provide means of rest material. When things live thus not easy for people to express their views on the most important realities, and the apparent respect for the intelligence comes down to being able to set good examples for comparison or clever in order to induce the specific acts, but not in the recognition that each person has the ability to know reality and be guided by it. That is not allowed to express that no explanations are given are full of orchestrations, fictitious or arguments. "
(A.R.R, priest of Opus Dei, 1945-2000).
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| pusey-2 |
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27 December de 2002 at 13:42:31
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The assessment of the virtues:
"Sometimes you can make speeches about the virtues with very little rigorous reasoning on the basis that people give and of course there are certain things that live demonstration of the virtues. This is very important because we are in an area where it is that people understand what they are experiencing. When we say, for example, who has a commitment to God in celibacy knows a lot. more love than those who live an intense infatuation love, we enter dangerous territory. In fact, many times those who live good human love is more balanced emotions he has to struggle violently with feelings or emotions that are presented with a wealth of experience intense and self-sacrifice to be very deep and natural inclinations. Especially delivery when that celibacy is the result not of a cash crush the Lord, but of a much more ambiguous "
(A.R.R)
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| pusey-2 |
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27 December de 2002 at 13:53:35
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Effects of inconsistencies in the message:
"When you have the warning of contradictions two things will happen: either suspicious of arguments and fall in skepticism, or closes the mind and affirm only valid reasons at the time. In both cases, intelligence is impaired . Such examples could be multiplied without difficulty. In our situation this could refer to the manner of dress pants, which once was considered unworthy of true womanhood ---, participation of the laity in the liturgy doing, for example, readings of the Mass, which was once described as signs of confusion and clericalism, and then scored for expression of liturgical formation, etc. ".
(A.R.R.) |
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| pusey-2 |
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27 December de 2002 at 15:03:18
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On spiritual direction and the "brotherly talk" (giving of consciousness to the directors):
"Similarly, in the so-called" spiritual direction "is confined to monitoring the implementation of concrete action rules, without rules and exercise at the deepest capacities of the soul. Those who run and are less people who watch over spiritual wealth of substance, or by achieving the goals, which all but disappeared from the gaze, as compliance with specific rules and regulations. Therefore, it is necessary to provide these people with the special conditions have always been considered necessary to lead others spiritually: no longer needed as teachers of prayer, the good administrative strictly implement the rules laid down by the authorities.
In a recent very comprehensive script on personal talk is in line with what I have said, especially the sincerity and obedience at information received, but e is too little, that the pitch should be actually a talk at that known to the person, with all its oddities and inclinations, and especially that which is principle of being able to say, for example, that someone is in "their place" or that something is' what, theirs ".
(A.R.R.)
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| pusey-2 |
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27 December de 2002 at 15:11:53
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The consequences of constructive criticism:
"Any opinions on the limitations or defects of the institution 'horn is considered serious misconduct deserving the severest punishment. It renews the old crime of" lese majesty "of the old regime was seriously considered dissolving the human community. It is not known that these views may arise, and indeed often are born of the desire to overcome the surface or administrative aspects, and to live more substantive goals that are justifying their existence.
In this situation, institutional prevails completely over people, and do not hesitate to cause serious damage at people if that emphasizes the primacy of the institution. This situation is very dangerous because it makes the directors will fall in the realm of consciousness, ie in the area that is only for God, and therefore seek to link their decisions to the conscience of those on acting and also feel entitled to make any means to access this area, arguing that it is absolutely important. This is encouraged so that all become potential whistleblowers of others. The accusation came to affirm as a manifestation of charity, it is said, to make known to the directors any things you miss, you are allowing them to be able to help better. This ignores that the human person can not help the cost of the same person and that moral good can not be performed by impositions ".
(A.R.R.) |
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