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Now is when doubt |
Evaristo
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07 October de 2002 at 19:53:33  
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This is where I doubt if I was in Opus Dei or the house of Big Brother. I have a few days leyéndoos, and I admit, really starting to doubt my own past.
There are many things that I would like to discuss, but I do not know what to start, you put me very hard. But basically, I think you have a serious problem, I have read many contradictions and inconsistencies, and foremost, want to be mentally straws. (For the record, he used that expression from the Center for Studies, sorry if a little coarse 
Just point a couple of little things (or temillas ...):
1. Opus Dei taught me what the word freedom really means (and how to carry my life in order to use it for others, for everyone else) I did it while I was in Opus, and still do now.
2. It is true that some of the most assholes (this expression I learned in the Study Center, he knew from before) I've met in my life are the Opus. Others will not. And the best person in the world, and at most I wanted, is in the Opus. Others will not. Mania qualifiers you have, milk.
Incidentally, my current relationship with Opus Dei is almost zero
Besos, pax, and those things
By the way, I love the forum. |
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| Ulises |
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10 October de 2002 at 20:34:01
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Evaristo, now say they doubt even our experiences when nobody has questioned and on top of yours say that you realize when handling even before I offended you by telling you that you could be manipulated, this conversation does not make sense so for my part is finished.
Que te vaya bien. |
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| Evaristo |
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10 October de 2002 at 21:27:14
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Sorry, Ulysses, to leave the conversation. If you wish, it will. But let me point that this discussion has doubted that my experiences have taught me the work that is freedom, I have been told that I am not aware of the operations ... and wine (but I accept as a pet octopus)
Maybe I do not understand it (maybe because some fail to understand it) but I take offense when I say that Opus Dei manipulated me. I confess that I felt manipulated by Chenoa, and I feel manipulated when you start reading a novel, I go to the theater or see a movie (and five years of my niece also has me manipuladísimo Leti). And I feel manipulated because I feel like I handle these things. Opus I never manipulated. If you continue the conversation could clarify the term "manipulate", but anyway, why lose out.
PS I've never tried myself in agreement with anybody, but just contrasting opinions, that is good.
Greetings
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| Invitado |
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10 October de 2002 at 22:32:35
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Evaristo
Is it true that you're getting married, your poor wife! say some things ...! (of course! already what you're thinking: these, poor things, understands nothing ...)
(I done wrong?)
pax |
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| Evaristo |
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10 October de 2002 at 23:08:15
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I understand nothing of what you said ... and someone said several messages back ... I am convinced that others listeros, even without sharing (not know) my views, have followed my argumentillos.
My future leave her alone, do not go unless I repent and Liem.
In aeternum |
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| Lola2002 |
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11 October de 2002 at 02:08:09
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Evaristo, as in "poor, do not get it" was not my message, but for the typical phrase used by the opus when someone does not think like them ...
And if you want, maybe you do not manipulated, but I (and several others) YES !!!!, and that hurts because you trusted ... 
Just as it is, I live life differently, "free" without having to explain what I do (if not for Darla), and above all with open minds, both say, to read or make friends. .. and real friends, not people who are "pitable"
O.K?
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Evaristo |
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11 October de 2002 at 15:40:43
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It's nice how well we understand and we support here listeros, that what you say explains another ... The case is finally concluded (reluctantly) this discussion, because Lola 2002 has said exactly what I started saying, but backwards (and a wonderful Argentine accent):
"And if you want, maybe you do not manipulated, but I (and several others) YES !!!!"
And if you want, maybe you if you handled them, but to me (and several others) NO!!
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| Fran02 |
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11 October de 2002 at 15:51:28
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Hola Evaristo. I see so much inconsistency in your response I mislead.
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| Fran02 |
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11 October de 2002 at 15:56:32
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| However, after reading the discussion you've brought and the many reactions that have caused, I would ask the question in reverse: WHAT THINGS SEEN IN THE OPUS DEI MADE THAT YOU LEAVE? Because some would, right? Or invited you get out?. |
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| Invitado |
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11 October de 2002 at 16:02:44
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| Evaristo, I hope your answer to the question above ... I'm interested!!!! |
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| Evaristo |
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11 October de 2002 at 16:29:33
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Cachis cursed with inconsistencies, there is no way that we understand that this is going by experience, which I very much like what you say, that you manipulate and stuff ... but understand that there is another point of view ... really ... not that hard ... here have already said several (not me only)
What I saw in Opus Dei that I "fed up" was that my period is over there. Looking at things with perspective is that in this world, the life of every human being, there are few things eternal, and God is no fool, and calls each one differently, some for good and others to live stages . And this is personal for each, and the decision to begin or continue stages is unique to each one (and no coercion should fit) Do not know if I'm drefraudo or incongruous in my reply, but I got the Opus because I left the balls, and I went because I left the balls.
(Excuse the vocabulary, but I looked for ways to say the same, and I have not found)
And I left with a hug that still makes me shudder, and with the advice of very good people, very holy ... and very good shit, hey. |
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| Invitado |
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11 October de 2002 at 17:05:35
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Hey Fran, Evaristo did not you understand?
From what he says we can conclude that in Opus there are two types of people: the manipulators and the manipulated. Maybe I do not know, Evaristo was within the first group.
PD.El who knows what was inside the censorship of books and personal e-check is true. |
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| Evaristo |
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11 October de 2002 at 17:56:07
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I earnestly ask you to sign the premises for which you infer that "this" has stated that Opus is manipulated and manipulative. The division did "this" of Opus Dei was: hombres and not bastards. Classification, on the other hand, can be applied to any group, including this list, and you will specifically include (i dont know) in the first group. Let this freedom, because you've allowed you suggest that I was "manipulative".
Greetings
Éste
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| Evaristo |
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15 October de 2002 at 16:07:19
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Still ... I am ... waiting ...
Éste |
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| SRG |
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20 October de 2002 at 11:37:50
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Hi Evaristo
I'm glad that YOU have been met for that freedom. The truth that I believe that "you think" have met her, and I'll tell you why:
I'm with Iggy and Ulysses and not know who else because I felt lazy and read as much roll, but what I can tell you is what is FREEDOM:
1) they tell you not go out with "x" person because she is also numerary.
2) that you select the friends
3) you "suggesting" make friends with who and whom to put the calling
4) you choose to work at certain times and if in spite of not wanting to do that you require, and this saw a few cases, but occurs, in which some will charge an administration numerary and although she did not want it played and there was no return.
5) you can not see, or read books that have nothing wrong but I'm not good consdierados
6) get checked out the letters he sent and receive, this is freedom .....
7, 8, 9, 20 ...... 10,000 could have "n" number of arguments but you know well that these are sufficient or not 
PUES dying of laughter .... if you send me your address and you do get a good dictionary, so you see well what is freedom, no problem ok.
SALUDOS |
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| Evaristo |
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20 October de 2002 at 21:13:26
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Thanks for your offer SRG. I do not think I needed. Since the work could add another ten thousand examples of what is not freedom. Since I have a girlfriend, another ten thousand (some very similar at that you post). And when you mother ... not tell you. But maybe not you think that I am quite happy in my work and almost all other aspects of my life (Atleti's draw ...). And maybe I do not think it's absolutely free.
And since only you know what is not freedom, I'd tell you what really is freedom (is that ....): I do know is that strange human capacity to choose what they want, when and how you want ... and it is accepted with some maturity and sense of responsibility. If you're wrong ... then something else, butterfly.
Besazos
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