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Is this respect for freedom? |
iggy
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07 October de 2002 at 07:15:03  
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Hi,
Yesterday I told here how I got in Opus Dei. I did not know how to post a message in the forum. As I think of sufficient scale this issue, copy the message back but this time as the beginning of discussion. So it will be more easily read.
Start with "hello Marukita" because I wrote the message in response to one Marukita messages. I leave it as is because they want to change anything now.
I really lost contact with Opus Dei for many years, and who knows what things have changed. I do not know if people keep talking about young teenagers whistle as happened to me. If so, I would do everything possible not to ever again commit the injustice that was committed to me. I do not seek revenge or repair, do not like looking back into the wound. I prefer to forget - even impossible, and living life. But if I write this, is if anybody can serve, and also where the work can someone give me an explanation.
Thanks
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Hi Marukita,
Today I discovered this forum in which many former members tell of their experiences, and I read your message dated 11 September.
I live in Spain and was cash for nearly 10 years. Of course I realize that the forum comments from people who criticize you feel inordinately and hatred toward the work. But anyway, I'll tell you that I have some things I would like to know. Try not to make explicit judgments about Opus Dei but tell me honestly what happened to me.
You know? since I got out of the play there are some things I have inside and I have not commented to anyone about the work. I think me an injustice was committed. And I fear that too was committed with more young men like me.
You know very well that the work is said to be deeply respects the freedom of individuals. But, and I'm serious, after what happened I do not know to what extent this is true.
I was a boy of 14 years in 1983 who had studied as a child in a school of Opus Dei. So in my fourteen years had not even had a friend, not a mixed school. I can say that the only girls we had a deal were my cousins. Ok, then just at that age when boys start to meet at girls I started to attend a center of the work. They were my best friends, and remember it was a very special place for me. It is true that there was a climate of joy, I make your time there and getting more and study better. Besides college students living in that club you always lent a hand - and had several engineers who knew a lot of mathematics. On the other hand I became friends with the priest really that house, also a professor at my own school. In addition, the director of that center was a professor at my own school as well.
Well, a day of that year, "I was less than 15 years, was Saturday and I was in the first communion of a cousin of mine. I do not remember how I located, but got a call from someone at work and told me to see if she could come soon from the center, they wanted to talk about something.
Of course, then I attended the training facilities and I got along well with everyone. As you know, the degree of confidence you develop into a center of the work is immense, perhaps can not understand someone who has not known. Well, the fact is that I presented myself there. They took me to the room called "address" and sat against the best of my "friends" university lived in that house, someone who had all my trust and appreciation. We were both alone. I started talking about something that grabbed me completely by surprise. I spoke of my vocation to work. I do not remember as it was all or what were his arguments, but he started asking to see God at that time asked me to give my life for what he wanted. And what He wanted me to be cash. I, honestly, at any time that I had raised. In my fourteen years, enjoying my hobbies, sports, friends, etc.. and not sure what people did to belong to the Work, because I had not even raised. I remember what bothered me is that if I say yes, should remain celibate all my life would not ever girlfriend, wife or children, so .. Go! ... it was an important decision!
After more than an hour, the university left his post to someone else. I do not remember if in total there were 3 or 4 people that I spoke without interruption. It was a marathon session. And I was caught completely by surprise. The last two people I spoke of those hours were the priest (which I said it was a special friend, actually I had a special affection for him) and the director of the club. I remember that the only "breathing space" I had were one or two times I spent in the chapel, praying, trying to sort all that chaos or the dizziness and spinning round in my head, trying to talk with Jesus in the tabernacle, trying to hear something, or "see" a signal, an indication, proof that he asked me to take that step. I asked Jesus to move an object, which spontaneously ignite any candles on the altar. Some miracle please.
I think I was told not to do illusions, what merit would also decide to see a miracle? I felt a bit stupid to ask why a miracle.
Come to think .... I'm sure bored .. because you've probably heard a thousand stories like this: the story of a pitaj.
In the end I said yes. I did not discover any particular signal, or any special call within me. Why I said yes then? I guess because those so-ever I insisted I had heard adults that way, and for me there were people whatsoever. I have much confidence in them and also had influence on me. I was a teenager and two of them, the priest and the director were teachers of my own school, as I said. Another reason I decided to say yes, was that at one point, one of those people who told me that my friends told me (about five or six), those in my class (with which he went each evening to study the center) and were of the work for weeks or months. So I kept feeling like the last and clueless as well - for not having learned nothing, something that had to be remedied as soon as possible, up to the car later but with dignity and courage no less than my peers.
I said yes, but I spoke to be temporary or added. Did not even know what a temporary or an aggregate. The next day I started to wonder why I had discussed the possibility of being temporary (and thus be able to marry).
As I said, that continuous session in which the case for cash I decided to be succeeded each other without stopping, ran pretty. From about six in the afternoon until eleven at night time when I wrote the letter to Father. It was so late that I was taken home by car. It was over, congratulated me and smiled now very happy, I was one of the family as a newborn.
That evening changed my life, of course. "I was able to talk about something so important to my life, my own parents before I decide? Of course not. I saw my parents and suggested that I call during the afternoon. What would have happened if it had been pestering me so much and I would have gone home to think about my decision with peace, with time?
Do you understand my feeling now? It has taken many years, too, until I've been able to face this and judge for myself these facts. And of course talk about it openly without feeling a kind of shame (said so when you feel ashamed to disclose your privacy?).
But now I can.
What was to respect my freedom and my conscience?. I was a kid too young to decide something so important to trial. Why was there such a hurry? That day was 1 May, the month of the Virgin, and so that day was surely fixed-for-me "beep". We who know the work that in many cases the people in the work of a center, he knows that someone will talk to whistle and then so people prayed and offered sacrifices to send energy or grace to the person who have to take that step.
Marukita, you see I speak honestly and without revenge. You do not judge you. I do not judge the work - and certainly if the Work is aware of this or approves this approach ... I am in complete disagreement and I think it is immoral. I expose these facts so well know and remember so well because both have affected me. Do not tell now how my life was in the Work. I've told you something important enough to discuss or clarify things. What do you think? I am very interested in your opinion and see if somehow justifies what they did with me. Quiet not jump to your neck if you find some justification. That yes, I would like to post some reason I try to understand. I think I've overcome a lot already and I can talk about all this smoothly and without losing your temper. I've never lost because I am also easy temperament.
But I feel a very great injustice was committed and a great abuse me. The conviction that I entered the work in a strange way, in haste and without that I really have felt a special call to that way of life, is what ultimately helped me out of there because I really understand had not entered freely. And now after a few years, I dare to think and say that never should have entered.
Marcelo you said to leave the play calling should be taking the worst that can happen. I tell you to come inside without calling can be very very bad, even if years later you get out, no way to recover that part of your life you have been removed.
Thank you for reading this and your answer. I hope you do not mind to send the same message to the forum, so saving me having to count all over again. If you answer, you can do it in the forum. If you decide to answer only to me, you can trust not to publish your answer on the forum.
Greetings and thanks for your attention
Iggy
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| Lola2002 |
12 tracks
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Published
07 October de 2002 at 15:40:29
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(Pego this post here already published elsewhere, to continue the item ordered)
Iggy, Your account of the "pitaj" no waste .. That's right!, for those wondering if there is coercion, and for saying that is the result of free choice ... Take out your conclusions ...
It is true that one whistle calls, but under these circumstances ...
Welcome Iggy!
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Invitado |
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07 October de 2002 at 23:24:35
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(I also hit the message you put in another forum to continue with order, ok?)
Iggy:
Your message is poignant.
Parents who read this forum and bring their children to clubs of Opus Dei to do what they call "extracurricular activities" is very likely that their children no matter what Iggy. if you are convinced that Opus Dei is a living model to follow, follow him, but PLEASE do not interfere with their minor children in this, although I have told you that "if the children are calling be respected ". parents are primarily responsible for bringing their children to a place like that in a person with good faith, that if they make a fatal injury to children.
pax ( al opus dei como institucion) |
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| iggy |
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09 October de 2002 at 05:06:21
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Gracias Lola,
Indeed das with the keyword: "coercion". It came to my head and I think does not use it any time in my message, but it sums up what I tried to say.
I am delighted to have told my story here. Needed to. This is very easy because no one sees you and you can keep your identity secret. But I would say even more: you learn to lose their fear of talking about it. And this, more than recommended is necessary, really. I had never complained to anyone that coercion was something that was kept in from the 83, almost twenty years!. Here at last I opened the cap which contained some very black smoke. Now, the truth, I am quite capable of saying this anywhere and loudly if necessary. I feel free, I'm not bitter or defeated by any means. I feel totally humiliated if I continue even within the work to face this fear and seek explanations, something that never crossed my mind to do when I was inside. Now I feel great. I do not demand apologies or anything, I just keep my values, my honesty, my heart, something I thank God. How can I complain if there are still many who suffer or have suffered a lot more than me? I at least had the luck or the courage to face my problem. I'm happy, and very quiet, I have peace. Others likely remain subdued throughout his life and live a script that they had not played live, but others imposed on them.
I look into the eyes of anyone, of any director, chaplain, or the father himself, and perhaps who they will have to take his eyes from mine, but not for me.
Where does the dignity and honor of people? |
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| iggy |
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15 October de 2002 at 01:01:17
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I remember that shortly after the whistle, one day I asked the assistant manager of the center-the person I did talk fraternal (a weekly conversation with a lay brother, not the priest, which you leave your soul bare and give account of what you do or fail to do) - if a person loses his vocation, that is, a person leaving the od is condemned for eternity.
Surely, rather than for myself, I asked because I was watching some of my classmates dropped out and left the od
But remember this today, I am amazed and think how come I was so "lost" or "tricked" to ask that. He was then fifteen years and was a newcomer to od
No doubt because of my ignorance and also because the work is inculcated us to lose the call was the worst thing you could imagine.
I remember I said no, to leave the vocation was not in itself something to bring condemnation to hell. But a person who has had something so big, so sacred in his hands, a person who has been able to pull this gift of God ... it is not surprising then to sink, lose everything else and finally pay.
On the comments.
Iggy
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| Lola2002 |
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15 October de 2002 at 04:30:35
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That to me is the worst manipulation ... the terror of losing one's vocation, because I'll never be happy, all those who left have a miserable life (that's what can be seen "between the lines" of the former) , for not being faithful ...
And that torture you, because you realize that you're not happy in, but do not think you allow the possibility of being out ...
Thank God 'when I was introduced to me his dilemma, I began to see the world with open eyes, and saw that there were thousands of good people, holy and happy, they were not the opus ... I jumped into the pool ... (ie I left, I did not care, I do not believe the story) ... And I'm much happier than before because I feel free!! And God still loves me and I him !!!!!
DO NOT BE DECEIVED ... The opus is not the only camihno (looks like an idiot as I say, but she passed or passes through this situation I understand!)
Kiss to all!  
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| iggy |
8 tracks
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23 October de 2002 at 03:17:50
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Hello again,
I never tell the story of my pitaj that year, in my heart, the work we did a good number of young, all my age or so, and many of them in my same class, as already recounted, .
In addition to the 6 or 7 Fellows of my own class-boys of 14 or 15 years that year booed peers from other schools. So we gathered in the center a handful of young-about 15 (counting only those in my class. There were many other college courses)
Well, all those, much of it came a few years, and I know that today only one remains in cash. Everyone else just coming out. I was one of the most lasted about 9 years.
I never know exactly what conditions of pressure or coercion asked my colleagues admission. Nor do I deny that either the request after several days of calm reflection. But I think not. Knowing what was done with me, I do not with others, to the board of the center will enter sudden qualms of conscience. I guess they think that the more young Research an (that yes, meeting minimum requirements) for the better.
This I explain it. Marcelo said in a message:
"Vocation is God's call. No one can give or withdraw their vocation, but the Lord"
One thing is to feel a call from God, I've felt that I did not, but remember that the founder of OD felt inklings of his vocation for some years, not knowing what it was but I felt a call-and quite another is that in a matter of hours you put a vocation as one who makes you a hat or a coat on his lapel: by decree.
I am sure that deep down these editors think: well, this kid has virtues, study, is sympathetic, her family gives guarantees (social position, Christian home, etc.) and can become a true cash tomorrow, better between now and never miss in the years to come (ages 15, 16, 17, 18 ...) with friends, girlfriends, etc.. If you have no vocation and not suited to this kind of life, whether it will, but just in case we ask you and calling and trying to come in and stay. We also need to create a positive atmosphere and a pitaj is always a great boost for everyone. The entire center is filled with joy and energy and everything works better. Conversely, when much time passes without anyone beeps in the middle people are starting to ask many questions: why are we here? Why nobody pita? Are we as bad apostles of Jesus Christ? Is there something we are doing wrong and so God does not send vocations? Should we offer more sacrifices? Is it a trial period of the Lord?
You see, people could re-paranoid exaggerating to make my point clear-This could create an atmosphere of discouragement and perhaps some of the longer-tenured maybe that is not, quite clear and looks a little sad or are hesitant to ask how it comes, it landed there, or consider leaving the OD
And of course, the solution is a pitaj time. And if there are two or three best because it creates a great atmosphere, there are celebrations, and so many things work in the RE based on "good atmosphere". If after year these kids-I and my companions are out ... Beyond them, (are free), but while they may bring things inside - not just money, but lend a hand, to issue ...
Told me I look good. I'm not saying all this so malevolent or cynical. I say this in light of the evidence: many young people who booed and booed how ... I can not believe what you say, Marcelo, vocation that God gives or withdraws it. Not in the O.D.
In O.D. there is much more pragmatic about the vocation, and without any scruples, people "who had a special gift from God because they are very holy or very clever," "know" for sure if you're calling even when only a youth of 14 years .
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