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Is Opus Dei a sect destructive? |
Alvaro
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16 November de 2002 at 18:22:17  
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| Is Opus Dei a sect destructive? |
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| Alvaro |
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16 November de 2002 at 18:33:32
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I would love that opusinos (Evaristo, Marc, Pepe and some guests hidden) and all cash and assistants who have known and lived inside Opus will answer without insulting and not beat around the bush, that commandment or commandments, of the ten indicators, is on the Opus. The rank and file (temporary) are "other" opus.
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| volo |
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17 November de 2002 at 13:47:59
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Dear Alvaro, I added more than 20 years and my life experiences and how you can say that it satisfies none of the commandments that you post. I recognize that in the case of cash / ace, with common life and not much personality can seem. Finally can be said that sect without being destructive and can be destructive without being sect. The latter case (and not destructive cult) is that it may resemble more the OD, when members begin to question their aims and methods and begin the process of rupture. It is my opinion.
Greetings |
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| Alvaro |
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17 November de 2002 at 14:34:43
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Dear Volo, thanks for your answer.
In my previous message to you, requesting the participation of "cash and assistants" and priests, is where I met the ten commandments.
For the rest of the class of men), met some.
A greeting
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| Evaristo |
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17 November de 2002 at 20:41:46
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Hola Alvaro
Let us accept without checking the authority of the Dominicans in this area. Not for nothing, just to start from somewhere.
Opusino accept that I am ... in order ...
And accept the peculiar language that is handled in the "Decalogue". I say this because the first point, for example, can be applied to my Atleti (let ganaaaaaaaaando) 
To the point:
1 .- Group together by a doctrine (religious or socio-religious) headed by the demagogic and charismatic leader who is the same deity or her choice, or a holder of the "Absolute Truth" in any social field.
I believe the doctrine of Opus is far removed from being demagogic. What they offer are not exactly flattering, nor is promised an easy life.
Escriva was chosen by God, and the founder of the Dominicans as well, to whatever. That is not bad. But that does not make them owners of any absolute truth, and less in any social field. To me nobody told me who had to vote.
2. Structure theocratic and totalitarian vertical where the word of the leaders is a dogma of faith. The leaders involved in even the most intimate and personal details of their followers and require that their orders are executed without the slightest criticism.
Are there leaders in Opus Dei? Can we identify with the directors? Or only leader chaplain is up? Those who are not "walk" are leaders? The Director directs ... evident. And who has given himself body and soul, for it has to be consistent. If they want to do, as it goes. It's easy. The presence of many on this forum shows me that easily. It makes me laugh so intimate detail: none of you really took the manager on duty, if it was some jerk, and set him straight?
3 .- They demand total adherence to the group and force (under psychological pressure) to break all social ties before entering the cult: parents, partners, friends, work, studies, etc..
I descojono of laughter (pardon the expression) The child moves from their parents, Married or has a divorce, friends do not work, stop working and / or studying ... I think that precisely this is just the opposite. Or not to do ministry? Or do we criticize the excessive proselytizing zeal?
4 .- They live in gated communities or total dependence on the group.
Above all the extra ... And so close is a center of Fellows who constantly invite people to go.
The Reliance group is the creation each. The will be so, but I can assure you that there is no
5 .- They suppress individual liberties and privacy rights
This is already strong. Especially since it is an accusation of crime. And whoever decides these allegations are the judges. I suggest that the former members who have had this person in the police court and establish the corresponding report.
Hey, the other five, if you do not mind, I leave you for another day, this is already too long. And I'm on my bad temper when I read him the freedom and privacy ...
Greetings
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| Invitado |
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17 November de 2002 at 21:23:49
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| Good night. My name is Manuel from Spain. I added several years, but I disagree with the approach of Volo and Evaristo. The Decalogue which sets Alvaro is a format "type" of the features expected of a group to be considered destructive cult. I do not think that Opus Dei does them all, but some. For me, Opus Dei is not exactly a cult, but uses sectarian procedure. To me, Evaristo, I very much like you to defend tooth and nail to Work. But you know very well (and let Counselors tale up) that the work the Father's word is above all other considerations. And even more than the Father (live), Founder: everything is perceived as absolute truths. The right to privacy that both prompts you to laughter: Evaristo, "Do you read (or read) letters, just to give an example of the dozens who are there? The family apartment is real. Few parents know in detail what your children (including minors) do in these clubs since the early Christians because it provides that a thing is the family "blood" and the other the "supernatural". And the latter, of course, that counts. Friends, yes: to attract them to work. Or get into the orbit of Opus Dei or are considered at least a waste of time. With all this I dare not be so exhaustive as to call a "destructive cult". But do not hesitate to ensure that procedures used in sectarian. A hug. |
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| Invitado |
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17 November de 2002 at 21:46:50
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| I am the "Guest" as before. I forgot to tell, Evaristo, I do not know if it would have some kind of legal repercussions unfavorable to work carrying the attack on privacy. What I do know (because I start to tell me something) is that legally, many of the things they do are not included in the canon law. They always welcome you freely chose to follow those procedures. But this opens another big issue: when did you decide to renuciar their rights? Do you know a young man, at the time of their relationship whistle rights and obligations? Can you say what are justified? Because I feel that things in the Work as diffuse as the "good spirit" are catchall which established standards of conduct by law (or Canon or Civil) do not exist (and that under no circumstances can push yourself. They are based then that's a family with a father and some siblings (including exotic note of grandparents and uncles are blood only in relation to the founder). This "crack" family, dangerous crack passes many things by law (in capitals) could not. Greetings to all and established that only pretend to analyze from a great distance in time that it separates me from the Work. Without acrimony, I would say that one. |
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| lucy |
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18 November de 2002 at 14:35:17
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Dear Alvaro:
I read this with some text / tenured former friends and I step to answer you point by point our opinions based on our personal experiences:
According to the Dominicans, a destructive cult is totalitarian group that meets all the following ten commandments:
1 .- Group together by a doctrine (religious or socio-religious) headed by the demagogic and charismatic leader who is the same deity or her choice, or a holder of the "Absolute Truth" in any social field.
If. Absolutely. Not following the "advice" of Parent or of the Directors is considered a very serious offense. Why? because, according to type the opus was created by "God" and who does not obey to write, is "God" who disobeys.
2. Structure theocratic and totalitarian vertical where the word of the leaders is a dogma of faith. The leaders involved in even the most intimate and personal details of their followers and require that their orders are executed without the slightest criticism.
If. Absolutely. You have to count up the most intimate and personal thoughts. To tell the founder must be "brutally honest" to remain in the organization.
3 .- They demand total adherence to the group and force (under psychological pressure) to break all social ties before entering the cult: parents, partners, friends, work, studies, etc..
If. Absolutely. Once it enters the opus, the whole person's environment is isolated as the opus emphasizes that "only they can be good guides to the person. The other, even if our parents are wrong." Friends, classmates or colleagues, are important only if they can bring to the opus. If these problems can lead, do not waste time with them.
4 .- They live in gated communities or total dependence on the group.
If. Absolutely. The Fellows / as living in the center of the opus puden not go anywhere - to have a coffee with a friend's parents' house or buy clothes, without specific permission from the directors.
5 .- They suppress individual freedoms and the right to privacy.
Obviously, yes.
6. They control the information that reaches its followers, manipulating it at their convenience.
Yes, always. They read all the letters that reach the cash and they send.
7 .- They use sophisticated neurophysiological techniques-masked by the 'meditation' or 'rebirth espiritual'-that serve to override the will and reasoning of the followers, often causing serious emotional injury.
The cancellation of the will and reason came through the weekly confession with the priest appointed to the Center's weekly chat with the director of the center, the circle weekly, monthly and annual retreats, the daily tartulias etc. Everything is armed to go wash the young brains of the followers in a microclimate of phobia towards the outside.
8 .- advocate a total rejection of society and its institutions. Outside of worship are all enemies (polarization between good and evil-sect-Society), the company is crap and the people who live there only interested in the extent that they serve the group.
If. Absolutely. The rejection of society and institutions is reflected in the daily practice and becomes obsessive when it comes to cutting-edge institutions interpreted as aggressors opus to his "thought." In practice, one to one - everything points to this goal: to separate and belittling those who think differently.
9 .- Its primary activities include proselytizing (to get new recruits) and the collection of money (charity collection street courses, commercial and industrial activities and even criminal clearly). In the case of multinational sects, the money is sent in large part at stations in each group.
Yes, absolutely. His campaign activities are the priority as raising money. While new money, no matter where he goes or as it was obtained. In all cases of economic and financial embezzlement, the opus is the distarido and you loose the adept hand descibierto, processing and / or imprisoned. But meanwhile not come to light the problems, the opus he takes the juice to the end to ignore the financial muddle.
As a matter of "forms" are a blind eye on the ethics used by his followers for money genereacion the important thing is to fill their coffers.
10 .- Under psychological coercion, obtain the surrender of personal wealth of new adherents to the sect or large sums of money by way of "workshops" or "audits". Members who work outside the group deliver all or most of their salary to the sect. And those who work in companies of worship are not paid salaries (payroll of these companies are only legal cover, as they never become effective, or return the money to its members, labor).
If. Absolutely. All Fellows, after about 5 years indoors, should sign - without exception - a Will drafted by the Institution, which leave the opus of all goods and money inherited by his family. The money earning cash, due on 100% each month to the organization.
Regarding labor "magical" is correscto. This is done in the opus. We are several we have worked in these companies.
Saluti.
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| Evaristo |
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18 November de 2002 at 21:34:29
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Would continue with what was left pending ... but I read the message from Lucy & friends and would, if they do fit, I clarified two sentences:
1. The rejection of society and institutions is reflected in the daily practice and becomes obsessive when it comes to cutting-edge institutions interpreted as aggressors opus to his "thought."
2. His campaign activities are the priority as raising money. While new money, no matter where it comes or is obtained as
Common sense makes it evident that, at least one of these two statements is a lie. But the contradiction is not only Lucy & friends, but the illustrious Decalogue proposed by Álvaro & Dominicans.
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| Invitado |
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18 November de 2002 at 22:05:12
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| Evaristo Evaristo. Do not you realize that refiriéndote with a disdain for the ten points outlined as the "Decalogue illustrious proposed by Álvaro & Dominicans" are implicitly acknowledging that the Work indoctrinated think they possess the truth and who refuse immediately to "institutions avant-garde opus interpreted as aggressors to his thinking. " Are not you well these definitions seem to speak of a sect? What is a cult for you? Really, explain. Manuel |
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| Evaristo |
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19 November de 2002 at 16:16:40
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The first who accepted the authority of the Dominicans on the subject I myself certainly do not give me that treatment with some disdain, because not wash. OK broaden the authority does not mean gullible. Or is that now the absolute truth are the Dominicans? Let's see if the Dominicans will now be a sect that also possesses the absolute truth? What are cutting-edge Dominicans?
To understand nothing of what you sects copying another paragraph taken from the same page:
The sect is defined by its relative smallness numerical its enclosed structure, for their active or passive resistance to society and other religious bodies, for the free and voluntary participation of its members in the life of the group after having a conversion experience found fit based on their religious and moral qualities. He aspires to universality.
And if you read all that Dominicans say these will see the precise definition of terms not to confuse religious groups because they may come to share characteristics that could lead to mixing of concepts. The Focolare movement is not a cult, the Jesuits are not a sect, the communion and liberation are not a sect, Opus is not a cult ... read carefully the page, question everything he says, and the conclusion comes alone.
Again, and nobody has explained yet, in contradiction of the two sentences I put in another message. And I think it is contradictory, the Dominicans say the say the morning star, or a guest named Manuel says
Greetings
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| BaronNick |
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19 November de 2002 at 17:14:58
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It is unclear if the opus is a cult, what is clear is that it is destructive. The mere fact that a hormone-charged teenager to masturbate thinking about who is committing a sin when they do not hurt anyone is an attack on their freedom, and sometimes creates potential rapists. Sex is not obscene and less for adolescents.
The Dominicans, not good, but only to observe how to recruit new people, and gives the feeling of sect. |
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| Alvaro |
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19 November de 2002 at 22:20:10
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Evaristo, a few paragraphs earlier to your signal, it says:
"But the problem, of course, not quantity. The problem lies in the spirit and the sectarian attitude. It is obvious that Christian churches are very small numerically, for example the Spanish Reformed Episcopal Church and sects are a high number members, think-as an example, in the Society of Jehovah's Witnesses. "
I see that you have read the topic of the Dominicans. Did you come to the end?. In the last paragraph reads:
"And Cesar Vidal, another specialist Spanish, although not used in his Dictionary of occult sects and destructive cult term, refers to him in the fourth meaning of the word offering sect. He says:" Organization pyramidal unconditional submission to the leader or board, annulment of internal criticism, persecution of political objectives and / or economic changes linked to religious, philosophical or spiritual manipulation of followers for the purpose of the sect, no control or collective control of the account of another power religious or philosophical than the authority thereof. "
Read it slowly. Sound familiar?. But I think he has read Don Jose Maria ...
The least in name, underside of "destructive cult" Blessed Prelature we can call, but it fulfills everything.
1) "Organization pyramid.
2) unconditional submission to the leader or governing body
3) cancellation of internal criticism
4) pursuit of political objectives and / or economic changes linked to religious, philosophical or spiritual
5) manipulation of the supporters for the purpose of the sect
6) Lack of control or collective control of the account of another religious or philosophical power over the authority of the same.
A greeting.
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| ex-agd |
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19 November de 2002 at 23:39:45
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Hello everyone!
I do not consider that Opus fits the characteristics of a sect, nor those above nor others can be found elsewhere or in other books.
That is an organization that can be destructive? can be, depends how lucky you tap running ...
Health for all
Pax!!! |
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