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Is it hard to get out of the opus????? |
lucy
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12 November de 2002 at 15:25:31  
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I like to play a key theme in the story of a member of Opus Dei, leaving the organization.
This is a subject much discussed and debated. As much as the way to capture and secret coercive minors.
Lo hare from what I experienced personally and made him live many women numerary of Opus (men may tell their story, although not think there are many differences)
When a numerary already has around 5 or 6 years in the opus (some saw him two months after joining) begins to realize that things are not as predicted. Deep cracks appear between the ideals with one income and the reality that you are living in a center of Opus: the manipulation of people, their feelings, their family relationships, work and university, the economic tug of war, ideological, etc..
That is when that person raises the possibility of making a life outside the organization. But as a person is obedient and "brutally honest" will talk with the director of its Center and expresses his thoughts. She tells him that is nonsense, that is most pious, who lives in the presence of God and not to accommodate these thoughts are not God's thoughts are diabolical. But the person who already has intuited that the opus will not be happy or will be possible in any respect, insists the issue next week. She will repeat the same thing again and usually add. If you go, "strips the calling out the window" and that's what he said the founder of Opus Dei, if someone is in the play is because God has called from all eternity to live there and would have to be very little to say no to that God.
Well, I could elaborate story to tell here in the Founder of "traitors" who have left and threw his vocation, etc., but do not want to lose the thread of the topic.
Then the numerary him how much his thoughts to the priest whom he confesses. The priest says exactly what he said and appealed to the director for his proactive approach, saying: "We need you to be faithful and loyal, so few numeraries holy - I repeatedly told me when I confessed at The Citadel - and you can be. Come on, put aside these thoughts do not be stupid and cowardly. "
One out thinking that can not fail and must be holy. But the next day is discouraged because it does not want to over there and do not care if it's holy, blessed or just a human being. All he wants is to be free and live his own life. That God gave us.
The comings and goings between the Director and the priest come and go, the Delegation involved and perhaps the counselors. This whole process has significant ups and downs and can last a year or more.
The institutional pressure deepens, the numeraire has accumulated so much pressure and fear that is about to explode of guilt, fear and courage at a time.
And it encourages and gives the step and then another step and so it goes, fled without looking back. Without listening to anybody but the opus. And reencontarse starts with the person he always was, with talent that always had, with the God who always love her and start being happy, so happy out of the opus. And in time you experience some laughter when he sees that those same people who wanted to retain, over time and disillusioned, also left.
DEO OMNIS GLORIA !!!!
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| tanit |
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12 November de 2002 at 21:29:24
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Yes, I would say es.More that difficult. My case overall it was like Lucy but with a note a little more dramatic.
When he started the game of ping-pong between the principals and priests, sent me to the doctor. In that game remember q. enconces hurt me a lot and it scares me q. "said the head of the delegation. If I was going to be my downfall, I would become a daughter of puta.Glupp!
And as I told in another forum, the physician (temporary) general practitioner gave me a whole cocktail of antidepressants and somníferos.Por true, can a GP prescribe such medication? This made me 3 days out of combat. And then I went alone to the doctor and was told when I q. cash as the boy was not an accident but a suicide. That was already the trigger to run.
Neither then nor until long after, he had nothing against the opus. Zilch. It was like being in a concentration camp and my stamina was at an limite.Simplemente needed to get out of that q. I suppress.
Already with packed suitcases, went to say goodbye to the school's director. He tried to keep me, q. wait to talk to the d of the delegation, and so on. etc.Diré in all honesty q. 200,000 pts.para gave me the first trip and expenses.
Then I went to say goodbye to my work. In the 22 years in the opus I spent all in the inner workings, but the last two q.sin no experience or a degree in curriculum and Atty. in a career of letters, sent me to the street to make a living.
I said goodbye to my boss and I went to the city where my parents live. My parents, supernumerary since 1959, I refused.
I took her to his house one sister. I spent 6 months trying to rebuild my life, with the continued siege of the various directors q. I visited the priests of our firm, and I even put a supernumerary psychiatrist.
All were mild at first and I 'say q. had done well to leave that city, q. there would be better, etc, etc. All lies. When they saw q. my decision was firm again with a sack load of thunder from hell and other paraphernalia.
On top I put a detective. And then the director of Time came to tell me all q. to, especially on the issue of friends and sex. By then I was starting out with a friend of my brother and I clear panda.Y was a whore.
Until q. one day I got sick, I got told q. I do not insult anyone y. .. decided not to have any more contact with the opus.
I tried to go for good, but they would not. At the time it hurt. Now I am indifferent. The important thing is q. I'm out. And although supungo q. like all q. we left, I've had my difficulties.
Professionally: to find a curre without alguna.Emocionalmente experience: loss of love from your parents. Recover your brothers, and q. had no relationship whatsoever. Making friends in the opus when you have trained quite a friendship interesada.Encontrar partner when you have not seen a guy or painting, or know where to get it.
Fortunately, I currently work and live among nature, because this is my sueño.Tengo good and fun friends and a man who loves me dearly. "Q. can I ask of life? I feel more q. satisfied.
Such is the contrast, q. I feel as q. I am living another life. As if I had another chance to be happy.
Some of this I have seen in other ex-tenured and I'm glad a lot.
Greetings |
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| Invitado |
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13 November de 2002 at 00:19:15
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| Hello: I am the guest who joked with Lucy before with Sugar Moreno in another discussion. I'm glad that things (apparently) are going to calm. And in this light note I would say that I fully share the loneliness you feel when leaving the institution. That, in my case 17 years ago and never returned to want anything from them. It is irritating (and bleak) and dried overnight to be "brother" to "file for archiving. Moreover I think that in that lose a single act "human capital" extraordinary. I have often wondered in those 17 years than if they had helped me in a moment as traumatic as the output, perhaps today I would be cooperative. And I think in my case are enough that, without much resentment, let the work. I think we made a mistake with that attitude and, above all, a grave injustice to those who, like Lucy, played domestic tasks. (You see, Lucy, as I am no infiltrator?) Un abrazo |
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| clio |
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13 November de 2002 at 00:21:52
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I go to this forum after months of fruitless internet searching an area of freedom and responsibility to share ideas and experiences about Opus Dei. Thank God I did not belong and I belong to the opus, but I have people very close and very dear unfortunately it are inside. My interest in the subject is fundamentally do everything in my power to get them out. So I speak on this issue in particular. I read everything I could from what was published in this forum and found many stories, experiences, "cliches" and other well known facts for me. I agree with the statement by the former, as lucy, tanit, Lola and I retained no names. I am interested that you give me some guidance on the following:
Is there anything we can do "outsiders" to fire that caused the crisis end? If so, what helped you in that instance?
I think that show opposition is counterproductive, since for the fanatical opposition of outsiders not only reinforces their bigotry and blindness. Moreover, outsiders do not have 24 hours a day to try to achieve our objective which is to remove them, and run with a disadvantage compared to their superiors as directors and priests who try to retain them by all means.
Infinitely grateful to them if they can help me with this,
my congratulations to those who got out and live their own lives
until next time,
Clio |
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13 November de 2002 at 00:43:25
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(I am the previous guest)
Clio: basic question you should ask yourself before embarking on any type of action: those people who you know, is happy in Opus Dei?. If the answer is yes, I personally would not do anything. Hugs |
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| clio |
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13 November de 2002 at 01:48:42
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I think the concept of "happiness" for members of Opus Dei provides for a lengthy discussion, obviously you tell me what your guest is estimated just as I have repeatedly said such people "of the work." To which I say I'm completely convinced that it is difficult (if not impossible) to "be happy" when you're not free to decide on their own life. ... And I do not answer that "father" was a great defender of freedom! because that answer and I know it also.
Returning to the subject, I also believe that the human mind is complex and can not take at face value the response of a person who says "yes I'm happy", where as 13 or 14 years, some since birth, they are taught that happiness is "there", about God, which obviously is to be in the works.
As said earlier the issue of happiness to give more. Yes I think the main and obvious question is whether the person freely and knowingly decided what it means to join an institution like the Opus Dei. At that point, my answer is NO, do not decide freely (especially adolescents) but absolutely psychologically pressured, and not know beforehand what it means to be a member of the OD, as well as expressed by the former members of this forum.
Greetings,
Clio |
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| Invitado |
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13 November de 2002 at 01:55:24
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| Precisely because it is difficult to establish where the boundaries of happiness, do not think anyone (neither inside nor outside the Work) is qualified to assess the degree of it which has an outsider. I know that the issue is very complex and you are persecuting the best for these people but ... Are you sure you deliver that "happiness" alternative to what they say now enjoy? I would try to prevent anyone come in Opus Dei, but I'm not sure that force him out to be the best idea. But sure many people would argue the forum differently than mine and you may indicate possible procedures. Saludos y suerte. |
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| lucy |
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13 November de 2002 at 03:20:55
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Vamos por partes, as he said ....( you know who the knacker)
Dear Guest, I agree with every one of your opinions. I siempree said speaking people understand.
Clio: my opinion is that what you can do is help people who are in the opus and wants to go or already gone. Those who want to leave but do not dare and dare to tell you this, I think it would be good priests who could speak with open mind that enhance personality and talents of its faithful.
To those who have left, helping your company, invite them to come out and meet people in new circles of friends who never attended, to give books to help them find their inner diamond mezcladito and all this with humor.
Those who are of the work and have no intention of leaving, then you need not take them out! Leave them alone. Only if your heart is iran's said and if they are able to face life. If you have low self-esteem or are comfortable there for what they will get away?
The key point of real concern is that when you want to go and the decision taken and the guts to do it, and press both get hurt.
As a guest Really, dialogue can do anything. |
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| clio |
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13 November de 2002 at 03:53:29
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Lucy Thanks for your answer!
I've been lucky enough to accompany any of my loved ones to leave because they have not left. I understand what I explain in the message, but I ask again, is something that outsiders (we are very close relatives and people) can do to start the disappointment that mean?, That "that things are not as the predicate "or the difference between ideals and reality that entered. My specific question is whether any attitude we can help produce this crisis of vocation.
I hope I was clear, again thanks,
Clio |
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| Ulises |
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13 November de 2002 at 10:47:13
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Clio, although I have not been a member of Opus, the answer to your question I think you and I know, all I can do is be near those people you love, to inform of what is Opus, try to make them think and they always have in you a window through which to see what's outside the Opus. That someday leave prison to be reunited with that freedom depends on many factors, your only thing you can do is act on conscience.
If you look at the address you wear then maybe you can help her:
http://www.galeon.com/aissectas/quiensom.html |
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| lucy |
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13 November de 2002 at 11:09:45
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Clio: From my point of view - is what I do with my friends and their children - two things are important:
a. They know and feel that you want them to them as individuals, beyond the differences with the opus.
b. That when in doubt, when loaded with unanswered questions in the opus or a crisis of "vocation" or organizational indoctrination, know that you have to listen and help.
Everything you want to do beyond that, I do not think that helps. In my experience, you speak of disenchantment, come alone. It is something natural and inevitable, because human beings can not take so many years inside a pressure cooker. Obviously, there are Fellows who are for "family history" and as the grandparents were the opus, parents and uncles and brothers opus opus, the conditions of life as a teenager to materse in the opus. This people can not help if the desire for change is not born of themselves. Can she appears before Christ himself, and they think - by the mental indoctrination - that is the devil in disguise.
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| Berto |
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13 November de 2002 at 13:18:59
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| Hello friends. I, Berto, the friend of children, and he dies a very interesting question which makes lucy. Is it difficult to get out? In my case, what it cost me to say "bye", because even people who came from Madrid to talk to me (I was told that the work had a future) I said, Look, I'm sick of your cold showers, their sackcloth, their prayers and their gatherings. Fed up, do you hear? And I did not know what to say. A week later I was in the street enjoying the freedom. I had my confrontation with the real world, where I just do not adapt, but more than less've been overcoming the trauma. I exercised like never work within the work and took those deals that if I am perceived as a great chain economist trader, working in the sense I had no problems. Now occasionally some church going to them, I approach the priest who is in the confessional, I say that they're impresentables and go. Do not know which side is left to the priest, the poor, although not always the same. |
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13 November de 2002 at 14:25:01
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for lucy:
There are many cows in Argentina?
how many sisters you have?
Invitado |
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13 November de 2002 at 18:45:42
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For Lucy:
I congratulate you for your clarity and accuracy in explaining the steps to follow to get out of the opus. It is a path of gradual disillusionment and worse on how to communicate.
In the case of my son there was a depression, which also involved a psychiatrist cash, then began with serious labor problems continued with a desire to go to study abroad, until one day he came to his true home, and told me "I have great sorrow in my life, which is never heard my dad."
Today, he is better with the help of his family and of course with psychiatric treatment.
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| tanit |
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13 November de 2002 at 21:32:11
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Hello everyone,
interventions rereading just occurred to me one thing. Why not join us in some way to help each other and help others?
We have all had the same experience and although we or do not have much in common.
Could inform adolescents and their parents through conferences or similar.
Having a physical place where people can go.
I've thought of this when I was mulling over what to help q. are inside. As I have said previously, I q. little can be done because at the time one has absorbed the coconut in the ideals of the opus and can not see another cosa.Hay q. wait q. "mature"? and then if q. needs someone beside him, for he is alone.
You tell me. The same idea could start doing descabellada.Se via internet.
Greetings
Tanit |
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| Berto |
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13 November de 2002 at 22:01:53
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| Hi Tanit. I Berto, the friend of children. A great idea. Unite all former projects and help to trace. A counter-programming. As tele5 ago when a good series Antena3 issues. Or vice versa. Or maybe the example is not adequate. The problem is the physical space. It occurs to me the Santiago Bernabeu. No flags Totus Tuus. Or cures. Let us all and after the game we were to comment on our stuff. If Opus is the square of St. Peter's why we will not have us Chamartín? We could even canonize someone. A Evaristo, for example. Or to another. I do not know. Think about it. Bye. |
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