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DRUGS AT HOME! |
Invitado
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23 October de 2002 at 01:48:48 
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Someone suggested this in another forum, and I know nothing about it, but beginning this space because if anyone has anything to substantiate it would be very interesting to say, besides terrible ...
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| aquilina |
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28 October de 2002 at 15:14:42 
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Dear friends, I read with great interest all the speeches on this argument.
I'm not sure how I passed this, but I understand very well the positions of all, though of course not the condivido
"Insult". Those who provide not see them as such, because only they seem to present their different views, those who receive them are injured because they were just called "liars" when change would be fair to say that they simply have had different experiences .
Pardon the somewhat patronizing tone of this speech, but I need to try to find a point of understanding among all.
In each case I consider this very good forum, just in case someone who goes on the internet for news opus is here. Condivido what it says Carlos h at the beginning of your speech, is one of the few sites serious and informed about the opus. At first I was nervous at the tone they put a few in dispute with the other, reaching the verbal violence, but then I come to realize that who read our interventions comes to judge the value of what we say also for the tone we use. Hence the faults are also constructive tolerance and education.
Premise all this, I leave my testimony.
I left the opus after more than two years of severe depression. That happened almost 20 years, and after this long season and have struggled to regain my strength, I can say with credibility that I am not an unbalanced person, although, like everyone, and I still had my imbalances and my limits.
After these vicissitudes, I arrived with my own strength to recostruir my life and my successes and have many responsibilities, so I can not, nor I can judge a person patologica.
However, need more than 5 years to leave the state of depression in my long stay in the opus (17 years or so) I had caused. Often when I mention this, I say my body and my psyche came to react before they did my intelligence and moral sense.
At the beginning of this disease (which was the final phase of a crisis of vocation that I will not want to admit) a numerary my doctor gave me a soft center psychotropics.
Then I traveled to Pamplona, to the university clinic, and there a temporary psychiatrist prescribed me some strong medicine Pesantes caused me discomfort, but I swallowed without further because I desperately wanted out of that situation, ANY coast, and also because I know are of good spirit in the work comply with obedience that sends the physician, and then I thought it was just so.
After a few months this person fired me because he saw no choice but for me, and I'm not cured.
He continued with another psychiatrist cash in my home country, which also use most psychotropics. I trusted him and followed his prescriptions. With hard work, then got desintosicarme of these drugs and recover to live without these substances. Still, when it had been only 5 or 6 years after I left the opus, and yet I was not sufficiently "deprogrammed" had shocked me to read stories like those of Tanit. But the years have continued going on, I've done more experience, besides all, I have helped to connect factos, experience, experience ... When I read the book by Mari Carmen Tapia struck me very much, but I also realized that in some trials about people she appointed and that I had personally known (and there were a few, at least 5 or 6, two had even lived) coincided with my memories Juci and some positive, some negative. This has made me reflect a lot. Later I found other cases that, at least in part, coincide with the tales of Tanit. By the way, now, people who have been or are in the opus of which I know have had or have psychological problems are proportionately far more than they know with the same problems outside the work.
These reasons make me think that the witness should be taken very seriously Tanit, but has not been personally passed by the same experiences.
I've had orders from liability in excess of cl. And I also say this only to emphasize that I speak. With all that had responsibility for this point, I have often discovered by chance things that those levels will not count.
I think before I know for certain that this action with the drug is not scheduled. I think that what happens in every country or every time can vary greatly according to of many factors, not last the "good spirit" and the pragmatism of the chaplain and senior director. It also influences what goes on its proximity to the Vatican and other centers of power that can influence the valuation given the opus externally. But, I think, this is not the point.
The problem is that while internal training classes are taught otherwise, in the opus often the end justifies the means: everything, or almost, is allowed to reach the "vocations" can not escape, to get issues negative are not known to the outside, so that people of San Rafael and San Gabriel is not shocked by negative events ...
And this can not be admitted into an institution that, with approval of the Church, says he only wants to pursue holiness. These are methods that can only be justified to do evil, not for good.
Casserole disagreed with when he says "the delivery own life and peculiarities of the work may lead to the appearance of these situations."
Goro disagreed with when he says "it is logical that breaks the physical or mental health ...".
Nor concordo with Charles h when Continuing his address by saying "the excesses and bad things about the work should be covered by all the good things."
The guys in the street can make mistakes, be weak, neurotic, crazy, suicidal, and so on. Also at the church istituciones this can happen, of course, but it has to be an exception. If, however, these phenomena become a larger percentage than elsewhere, it means that something is not working as it should work. That something does not work in "the divine from the human value" that the ascent, at least as specific in these environments, it leads to a more complete human beings, and in the end, not get you closer to God, since it is He who created us and has inscribed in our nature with the rules works best.
And for this reason I want to finish by noting that appreciate Selene654 interventions that occasionally tries to make us raise a doubt that we must become a little older in our being children of the Church, and give us more aware that, by good things and divine, human and there are also things to desarcetadas to be reformed.
I hope not to make a statement so long: thanks for the patience of one who has reached the end.
A greeting to all,
Aquilina
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| Selene654 |
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28 October de 2002 at 17:42:19
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The drugs at home, not that I think only in Opus is given, so I saw my order and it's detected the alcohol problem in some States, idem happens in religious orders, only sometimes they hide it, but hey not all bad, in my approach to Opus Dei I greatly appreciate the moments of prayer in which I participate in retreats, really I need to do from the heart, if others do or not, I know! I seek God and feel that He loves me, Tami, I like the prayers we pray in Latin, which I deeply appreciate, I know that not everything is bad Opus, but we must never forget that the Church is made up of men who, often have their vested interests, so we must have "clinical eye" (analogy) for the things of God and seek what is really the Spirit moves us to follow Him
Greetings
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| Invitado |
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29 October de 2002 at 01:22:38
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for Marc:
am invited to say you are temporary. I thank you confessed your membership of Opus Dei, since it's preaching to conceal it. I regret that you have two big brother Fellows, mostly because the poor live a life impersonal and far from his family (but talk to them by phone, you know what I feel: If you have a bad day do not you hear, if you suddenly have love (could be ... why not?) also you find out. why? because they are dedicated himself body and soul to their directors. but hey, this is a part.
what I meant, is that type of origin is not going to v since he was baptized as Jose Maria Type Alvás (that do not explain it in circles, no?) that he change his name?, was quite free to do so . but also I am free to call type (in lower case because in my opinion does not deserve more because his invention has distorted my life and that of many others who unfortunately fell into their networks)
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| Ulises |
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29 October de 2002 at 10:49:41
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Pressure to recruit members, coercion, manipulation, sackcloth sackcloth shared spiritual director, brotherly talk ...., etc etc after reading all this, as I see anyone from outside Opus asks, what's so strange to think that a large proportion of members of Opus have psychological problems?, it would be strange otherwise. I suppose those who are in or still have similar ideas, or simply have not released all of them may think that what I say is an exaggeration or that this is due to "commitment" of people entering the Opus, but is my view and I think that will be shared by many people who are not linked with the Opus.
Actually the sensation when reading all this, is a dense atmosphere, insane, sad (though it put goofy happy face), with a tremendous lack of freedom, an iron grip on people that prevents the development of these a hypocritical use of personal relationships. No wonder that all that often lead to so-called "vocational crisis", which translates the internal jargon would be a psychological problem as others.
If they arise these psychological problems is intended that only resolved with medication, without changing the real reasons that have caused, all will be obtained in many cases will worsen the situation of the subject, although in others will help hide the symptoms and continue forward.
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| 37 |
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29 October de 2002 at 11:34:14
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Hello everyone, I'm Poppy.
On the 26th of this month I told you that I had come to mind a memory of a day when two priests, along with a numerary, checked the closets of the numerary assistants. I also said that I could not imagine why they carried out this task, well, I remembered that I said: "It is done to study the mental command of the auxiliaries for if your closet is messy and will head of its owner.
Please, if anyone has had this experience, please tell it here, otherwise it will seem like I'm inventing the episode, so unusual and strange it is.
Hugs.
  
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| Lola2002 |
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29 October de 2002 at 12:55:58
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Amapola, I never lived this experience (I should clarify that I was supernumerary in the 90s to 2001 and did not live in a center), and I learned to be made at the institution they belong (but this is not saying much, because I see there are several things that I learned or not I wanted to find out in those years). But I have heard a thousand times the phrase "external order reflects the internal order." In the center and from the mouths of my brother, who was then cash ...
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Invitado |
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29 October de 2002 at 18:55:29
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Aquilina.
I totally identify with what you write, because I do feel the same way I felt for my son who was 10 years cash, and now for 11 months and 30 years, is making a great effort with his real family to get out forward.
I remember that 5 years ago, a day center manager came to my house and told me very clearly, a "guy" we sent him to a psychiatrist for me and the priest determination of the center. The psychiatrist diagnosed her with depression and therefore are taking antidepressants.
I, I asked the psychiatrist because I needed phone contact with him, but that was a mission impossible, "the psychiatrist was a foreigner, and only came to my country to tend to some"
I remember the conversation with the director was very harsh on my part as well because we need reminders about psychiatrist caundo I had spoken repeatedly take him to a psychiatrist who was not cash, and I had refused.
Today, is in therapy and every day is looser and more autonomous, but still a long road to recovery.
! How awful to have lost so much time! I knew he was suffering, but he was fighting against an empire and I an ant. God grant he may find his peace and balance.
Mere
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| Evaristo |
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29 October de 2002 at 20:25:25
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Never in my stay in the work I took drugs. Neither saw anyone who needed them. Apart from almax and Gelocatil  , I never saw anything that is discussed here. When I left, on the one thing that really went wrong was when I had to make dinner. I did not even fry an Fueva. But neither needed psychiatrists or doctors or anything like that. I know other former members and other exsanrafael, and we have never been able to pass through the head of the drugs. My mother is a supernumerary. I have brothers Fellows. My contact with Opus Dei, after those years there, comes down to my relationship. And when I talk to them, and look into your eyes and see their happiness, their joy, their delivery ... I refuse to believe that this is due to pills. And when I see them suffer, being embarrassed, having trouble, I assure you I have not overcome their barriers with physicians.
Entendedme that I can not believe these things you say.
Greetings to all ... all.
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| aquilina |
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30 October de 2002 at 09:33:58
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Evaristo, the truth is that, from what I've gotten to know in these interventions, I does not surprise me that you have not you need is psychological support.
Nobody here has stated that these circumstances pass with absolutely all belonging to the opus.
Yes they spend a significant amount.
All that we have provided some evidence that we agree with carefully sought will not know that they do not have.
I myself have lived almost 15 aa. in the opus with many moments of hope and not realizing that these things passed.
The conclusion of these considerations is that there is no contradiction, at least rational and logical level "between the evidence presented by Tanit, by 37, for me, for Mere, and so on. Evaristo and others, and so on.
Aquilina |
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| 37 |
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30 October de 2002 at 12:16:04
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Hi Evaristo, the fact that you did not have to take medication (perhaps you left before they are needed) does not entitle you to say that lie who say that yes we did.
I am glad that your only post-Opus trauma of not knowing were the frying an egg, hopefully all those who have been hit by the shockwave of the Work of the Scribe Albas could say the same.
Evaristo assure you that I am not doubting what you tell, that was your experience and (perhaps soon then you're out) do not play by ours.
Reacts friend, do not think, as I have been led to believe, that you and your ex-group you are in possession of absolute truth, and, as I mistrust your word, try not to think about all those people who lie do not think like you. You'll be happier with yourself if you can put before judge in the place of another.
Besides, what sense would it lie?, Why would we want to?
Luckily, I do not believe me or not, as Tanit, dispensed with the approval of "them".
Know that if we reveal details that really hurt us remember, it's not bad to get him to whom she has enough to have fallen into their trap and get rid of it not knowing, but our purpose is to ensure, by the similarity of our experiences, that we are normal people, and if they've been so bad it was not because we were crazy, as some have come to believe, but because, in exchange for the promise of a place in Heaven, we required a superhuman life plan.
I assure you that God will not leave out at people who have decided not to make this world a "valley of tears."
Evaristo Relax, be happy, live and let live.
Un besazo very strong, because you need it.
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| volo |
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30 October de 2002 at 14:12:44
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Dear Amapola, I experienced that never registry accounts of cabinets and their explanation, but what they told us in all the talks about the virtue of order (and I gave them repeated when) was what the founder had said "I just see the order of a personal locker for my son to know how your inner life. " Within this context if it can "understand" the record, but I never heard that was done. Maybe it was just a practice for the numerary assistants.
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| Evaristo |
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30 October de 2002 at 17:13:21
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I am glad to see again that there are people in this friendly group who can share experiences, though they think differently and have other experiences.
I do not see any contradiction between what tanit and exposed by what I wrote. And do not accuse anyone of lying, but after my experience, understand that I can not believe. Be assured that if you use these methods, I have known. It's not smarter than anybody, but I assure you that I have known. It is true that neither I nor the Opus, or anyone, we have the absolute truth. In this treacherous world, nothing is true or a lie ... Something I was taught in the Work (and what Jesus also taught, and is taught today in all churches) is that the only true reality is Him But there are millions and millions. Mine is one of many, like tanit. And I would not characterize them as significant.
Indeed, the plan of life was not so inhuman. Hundreds of thousands of people meet so merrily. Beyond them, but they can fill. And you can leave satisfied ... because I did not I skipped reading, or confession, or the Mass, or rosary and the most that I said was that to see if satisfied, but I never had feelings of guilt or sin or anything, or give me pills to do it, or "hold". Perhaps I had better luck than you. It's possible.
Besos thousands
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| Onlyblue |
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30 October de 2002 at 19:55:55
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I have enough time, at least since the canonization widely read forum, comment on something as a guest once, but all came good at last I've registered. On the subject we are, I was added 3 years I went out to the 20 and it took 9 years off, I went out with a horse depression MEDICATION WITH SUPER and definitely no girlfriends so I struggled a bit out of the tunnel . Interestingly when I went out, a neighbor of mine that TB was the play came out (she was numerary) and although we only knew by sight and she was also single then be started and we became friends (it's now one of my best friends) ah! indeed, it also came with depression that chance.
I want to comment that all that time we were at home, should be very little, and all have come up with psychological problems. For the record, as an example that cost me three years to wearing a bikini at the pool and wear tank tops because, as it offended God ........
Those are the things that people overturn, crushing them with details of purity or purity if not, if you in a dress. Once a numerary said a girl who first attended the meditation of San Rafael that a child of God was not wearing a skirt so short, but you think you? who are they to judge who are or who are not children of God??.
We need to love people as they are, always wanting to make prototypes of cash or aggregate Fellows ... My boyfriend always says that all Fellows are recognized because they wear long shirt and jersey to the shoulder, with Castilian shoes, and girls always with pearl earrings. Listen and most are well at least where I live.
Well at least we can hope that everything is exceeded, and you realize you're no better or worse a child of God to bring a particular garment.
Oh by the way other details of stupidity which I checked was because I let my attention in a relationship because the repetition of dish meal that I had been hungry! because they know every detail that's a very ugly indeed good confessed (that which is not gluttony? not remember or that sin is), if not in all centers will be the same but good, now when I want I repeat, and as between times when I feel like that's what the fridge.
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| 37 |
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30 October de 2002 at 20:05:18
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Lola Thanks for your support and tell me how Nick could change, I did but still shows 37, the only thing I got was that Poppy left the firm, however I do not care, I know of 37.
To you I must also thank Volo to reply to my request, the two are a heaven.
Evaristo As for you, you yourself have given the key to why you did not hit, as some of us, belonging to the west, if you skip rosaries, readings, masses, confessions ... etc.. It is normal to not feel the pressure we drowned the others. If my mind, someday you cotaro as it was an ordinary day for me in that place.
Hugs
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| marc |
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01 November de 2002 at 03:30:12
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The plan of life is not as easy as Evaristo said, nor the children of God are impeccable, and Life Plan also has to transform into something qe HISTERICA puts people when there is love really can be done and is there when one understands the true meaning of life plan. The plan of life is a series of obstacles to meeting or exceeding the life plan is a tool that brings us to the Lord and for that matter, and good or what is meant is that in Opus Plan Life is essential and is the first thing he asks the director, the cash with which you talk or the priest in spiritual direction. So if the plan of life for many people it is good to get out terrible not to suffer. The good life plan is to do it because you feel like it, not by imposition.
37 told us in detail was a typical day /
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