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doubts |
Invitado
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07 October de 2002 at 17:47:15 
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Q anybody tell me what is the hair shirt?
And a cash, an aggregate, a collaborator? explain why I lost.
Q things can not make a belonging?
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| iggy |
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07 October de 2002 at 19:03:34 
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hola invitado,
A hair shirt is a contraption that looks like a headband with metal spikes inward. A sort of trellis wire that has ribbons at the ends and you can tie the calf. I had to take that one hour each day, except Sundays and other holidays, like any other cash. Also had to have it put on making a circle-which is a kind of talk to a group of people -
Sackcloth is an instrument of mortification that is often used by religious, I believe, although I think some orders. I think there tb sackcloth for the torso or other body parts. But I had to use, and certainly I had to go to a convent to buy myself was to put in the leg. would have a width of 3 or 4 cm. and you could completely encircle the calf.
It's not really something that makes you blood, but then you still have the marks on the upper leg, because you are digging into my skin. A few spots. But anyway, unless it is in nobody sport trousers discovered.
It was particularly annoying when sitting in school. I removed the concentration and did not know what position to actually do it because to suffer, no? So do not know if I could entontrar relief in the best position possible and that's why I came to remove the concentration. Needless to say, if anyone in jest plan would give you a push-without knowing anything at the wrong site ... you could see the stars, but of course you could not complain because no one had to realize. The mortification must be silent, which only God sees it.
Well, that's basically a hair shirt.
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| Invitado |
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07 October de 2002 at 19:38:28
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Thanks for your answer. I understand that you can not do that to a person to be better and be holy, but oh well .. I guess it's like everything else. How did you get into the Opus? in your school? the truth is that I find it strange .. not as accessible .. not asking you .. or its structure, ni na de na, am ignorant .. I hope you will open your eyes you a pco. Thank you all. A good kiss  vaaaale, two, pq many of you were. |
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| 37 |
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07 October de 2002 at 21:29:25
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Hi Iggy, so that only that you had to wear the hair shirt for an hour, in the case of the girls were 2 hours. Oh, and also be made at home, I watched the made specifically in Molinoviejo.
One question that has nothing to do with the question why so many people are called "guest" is a mess, do you not find another name?
pax
Amapola |
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| Invitado |
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07 October de 2002 at 23:05:13
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go hill!
boys wear the sackcloth only one hours!  this is incredible!
I had to put me two hours!
how unfair!
pax ( al opus dei) |
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| iggy |
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08 October de 2002 at 03:28:10
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es, there are plenty of guests here. But anyway, it is understandable that want to preserve their identity. But one can also preserve their identity by choosing a nickname, no?
But anyway, I understand that there are people who just in case you have an excess of caution.
Regarding the hair shirt, the truth I am surprised that the girls have to use two hours. Will not know who decided that. Now I wonder if the boys did something to compensate, more about them.
My memory is starting to fail on small details since I left nearly ten years. But I remember perfectly the disciplines, which were another instument of mortification pretty hard if you used hard. I think we should use them once a week, but here is where my memory is not working well.
Of course one was always free to the chagrin of most, but if it was the hair shirt or disciplines should be consulted before the Director.
You see, I like to stick to the facts and not make fun of things people can do voluntarily. Not I who say to a person not beat yourself if you really want to do it freely.
The problem, and very fat, is when someone does all that for years has entered into the work as I did. And I refer to the message you sent yesterday.
In closing, just say that certainly for me the hardest mortification was having to shower with cold water every day. In winter it can be horrible. That yes, I confess - I do not mind it-it cost me so much so, get directly under running cold water to soften the times first low temperature of the water with a little hot water and then removing the hot go end only with cold. but well, on many occasions used only cold water from the beginning was only a matter of will. That was very hard for me. I do not know if others would cost more or less clear. It was a mortification to be offered by the Father.
Oh, and of course one when pita as he enters the Work is not aware of everything that is going to come over. This compounds the injustice of which I spoke in my message yesterday. Because you are not honestly speak for you to enter the Work without exposing yourself honestly what exactly to what you promise. Of course mine was so rapid (all in just a few hours) I understand that there was no time to convince and to explain everything besides what I undertook. It was better obtner me first "yes" at any cost and I would go further and learning about the "small details". |
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| aquilina |
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08 October de 2002 at 11:53:50
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iggy, I'm going to refresh the memory with some other things that the girls were as chore boys.
For example, sleeping on the table every night and not just the "guard" that only the n, not added or auxiliaries, no sports wear pants or dresses, not smoking, not going without sleeves, put half in the summer, do not use ordinary swimsuits ... No go at weddings, or religious ceremony (I now believe that this has changed a bit, I stayed up late aa. '80). Not running a car alone with a male, though it rained in torrents or other situations equally exepcional (maybe this would also apply to men, I know ...) In general, when I was the opus and knew a former n I realized that although men have few freedoms, women were even less (to go out with friends and family to see blood, etc.)..
If it is true that in the auxiliary opus are fully subject at numeraries, it is also true that numeraries are considerably weaker and are more "under guardianship" of boys. ? Who gave all these indications? As the founder himself.
Ahyer tried to write in private, but a virus broke out in the order while sending the e-mail:? You've arrived? Although privately decided not to answer, I wonder if they've received.
a cordial greeting to all, 
Aquilina |
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09 October de 2002 at 00:29:11
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totally agree with the shower of cold water.
in winter was just awful, especially when you had to wash your hair and had it very long, as was my case. but for me the sackcloth was much worse. disciplines have to admit that never use "to sack" because the first day I saw that they made use them too much damage ... and neither my directors ever said! juajuajuajua! (which pillina!) the truth is that I felt bad not telling the truth in that, while not know why ...
years later told me that perhaps
"I lost my vocation" for the little mistakes of sincerity ... (it goes!)
I would like to ask the forum participants that defend Opus Dei three things that come close to a cloistered convent and buy a hair shirt (it cost them no more than 5 euros) that it put a little tight. they shower with cold water a day to very cold.
to imagine that after 15 years had to do that every day, all for the father ... (not even by God!)
thus begin to understand what the Opus Dei adherents.
in that they give no indication of what your life will be from pitaj, true. All you say is you have to be a saint, but as? ya lo veras ... AND FABRIC WITH WHAT YOU GOING TO FIND ...
Opus Dei will be whatever, but NEVER SANTO! the day that they realize the damage done (if it exists as to account, I think if) GO festival is organized ... who does not pay:
a recently-saint perhaps? or each person? this is the big question ...: the ideas are bad or "puppet people" who eat coconut, get out to prevent those who want it, invade privacy, Cilician advise minors, etc ... to what extent are these "good" people hurting others? can be good and do evil? is the fact of being deceived attenuating becomes good people puppets?
because telling someone they have a vocation and to see him suffer, mourn and say, "no, I do not see" and insist, is to prevent someone uses their constitutional right to freedom, and that is good? is not smart enough to turn the cash @ to notice this lack of respect for the freedom that is before them?
I, until now believed that they were good people but they were ill. now starting to doubt ... it is necessary to analyze this issue ...
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| aquilina |
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09 October de 2002 at 11:05:06
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To see if I can explain a thing I think often as I read the various forum posts: I think we all understand better if it considers that no one is good or bad, wise or foolish, honest or dishonest, without more (that the OD is less able to understand it because the training provided to them does not help to distinguish nuances).
The very boys we approach the OD had big dreams and ideals, maybe a little romantic. In my not really forced me (I do, then I did with many ...). Me too I like the idea of corporal mortification: the sense of heroism it provided. Immoral (and continued stressing that trial of immorality) is that older people taking advantage of the human and emotional immaturity of the boys to lure what they call a vocation. And say you already know of other specific aspects of vocation? Is sensible, no? can not explain everything at once, there are many aspects in a way of holiness. But while, you go cliff to something you do not know, and you have to cultivate the good spirit, and understand too, if you have good spirit, the things you allude without telling you explicitly. And as always, to talk with temptations against vocation ... And to proselytize, to think that it is easier to comfort not just, and for this you have to "force" people to follow their vocation (? And perhaps, the miraculous catch of fish would have liked to volunteer to be removed from the water ?) etc. etc. etc. all these arguments that many here, know very well but maybe (! hopefully!) we will have a little forgotten to live a more human and normal.
There are people in good faith, in the OD, they do immoral things in good faith along aa.
I do not think that the end is not a time in which to continue in good faith within the work. Also in this case the judge, because I think that might influence this supposed "loyalty" invincible weakness to begin life as 30, or 40 aa., Maybe not having worked "outside" never, no known link to normally with people opost sex, or having already received an education in their families that emphasizes aspects of immaturity too (the value of obedience, order, and the like).
Also let in people they are comfortable with their image abroad (or because of social altolocado level, or maybe the opposite, very simple: as the peasants of Piura or -? You remember the older ones? - Mary the fritter of a former "prospectus") because it serves to guard its image abroad, which they perceive those outside, the one to tell the politicians, at the newspapers and televisions. These passes are the best and most valuable message of the play (the spirit of service, respect for the diverse, non-use of the church but serve ,...), but all we had some minimum responsibility in the work we know that feature the names had to have it put into the list of St. Joseph, do you?
Forgive me if I become too long, and errors of Castilian, but I think these considerations are important to try to understand and reconcile the apparent contradictions between different experiences.
That you may be happy all
Aquilina |
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09 October de 2002 at 14:03:45
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Hi We are a group of friends had a friend and Q Q ES DEL OPUS BELIEVE FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS: He belongs to a wealthy family and Numbered 24 years who is very proud D GO TO MASS AND DEFINED AS A BOY VERY TRADITIONAL , HAVE A GREAT RESPECT FOR HIS FATHER AND BIBLE HAS A HOME IN A SHOWCASE presided over by His SALON, sexist mentality HAVE UNION AND DISCLAIMS ANY RELIGIOUS Q NOT LIKE YOU HAVE A GREAT OBSESSION Q FORM A LARGE FAMILY FOR GOOD TO FIRST START OVER TO LEAVE WITH A GIRL CASUAL OPUS D FAMILY AND FRIENDS GROUP D OR NOT WE KNOW WHERE HAS KNOWN, THERE IS THE POSSIBILITY OF THE TB Q BELONG TO WORK AND IT HAS HAD TO SEE THAT UNION Q?
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| Invitado |
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11 October de 2002 at 20:36:24
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The centers of the work they pay taxes to the state? They pay the social insurance numerarios-as/auxiliares/colaboradores?
I mean, if they honor the state's share of revenue from their members, this because in the short time that I belonged to the Work never gave me any receipt for what I bring. |
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| Marc |
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15 October de 2002 at 15:46:31
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I would explain to me more in detail what the features that need to have to be incorporated in the list of San Jose
I mean that the centers of the Work, pay all taxes and accounting and tax issues perfect. That was very clear that the founder pidio. |
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| Invitado |
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15 October de 2002 at 18:22:32
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However, I have friends who work in a school run by Opus Dei people and not only make retirement contributions, but that teachers who are not paid for months ... we are throwing a few bucks each and manipulate both saying that they take this institution depends on ... On the other hand, under aparende intellectual excellence, hides a mediocre and backward Gruupo pseudo intellectuals, who made only repeat formulas and theories imposed ...
WHEN TO !!!!!!!!!! |
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| 37 |
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15 October de 2002 at 19:48:31
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Yes, for how long? If someone find a formula for us to help all those people who have been caught and that fear, or because they have nowhere to go, or simply are incapable of coping with life alone, do not dare to say " I'm leaving ", I would like to expose in this forum. Although, knowing that they (the O) are introduced in high places and have so much power, I doubt that would let us move forward in this noble enterprise.
What I WOULD LIKE TO HELP YOU?
Amapola |
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| Marc |
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15 October de 2002 at 22:03:36
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| Someone can explain it from Fear OD members because they have power? please because they are several times that some known mainly Spanish and I speak of this. Sorry but do not believe this fear because they have power....... |
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| tanit |
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15 October de 2002 at 23:01:29
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Hi Marc, just say that on several occasions and for years I was secretary of different schools and I never lived like you say. Accounts were indeed very tight, but ... was double accounting. Even the books and accounting double boxes were kept in different places under llave.Evidentemente this was done to hide the money "B" and their accounts, to the danger of a possible record.
I just wanted to point that fact.
Greetings to all. |
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