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do not give us twisted ideas or lies on the opus dei... |
Invitado
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44 tracks
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377 messages
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15 July de 2002 at 14:08:53 
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This should be a tool to clarify and make known to everyone that is Opus Dei. And it is promoting precisely the most manipulative of the work. For starters 80% of those who belong, particularly Fellows are people of common sense, intelligent, good humored and pleasant character. They are not Nazis, nor Franco, no racist or bullshit that so many have written here. While you can always have some weird guy manioc or not usually. In fact, for the people of San Rafael or cooperators, Opus Dei is often the pump, you are very detailed, lots of formality and seriousness, while plans are formed that exceeded in imagination and fun to any plan today's youth, which is usually out at night to do the same thing, play soccer, or try and hit, and always with the same friends, because it is difficult, despite being the century of communications, meet people who you trust to be intimate. The problem is not either the training talks, which are often quite interesting, or circles, which serve to better understand your religion or spiritual director is essential in the advancement of holiness. The problem is that once you are in this situation, excited and fully committed abuse and betray the Catholic doctrine itself, and you can not see, you already have won as a friend and you can not think that you are manipulating. And this manipulation, in turn, is not intended that already in the atmosphere that the good is the commitment to Christ even if not convinced and are based solely on a hope that because you really like to be very happy ... within a time. There are many people of Opus Dei who are incredible people, much better than I, of course, and do much good, but others do wrong. Without judging the person, if I look at what they do, and do evil, sometimes much worse, another day commentators who do evil in my eyes. That yes, please if you are going to say something here that is true and applicable to Opus Dei in general, if not reinforced the message of the work on those who leave or those who disagree with their ways, and puts more fear is not the record straight. My email is m18181@hotmail.com. A greeting from Cephas. |
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| pusey-2 |
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72 messages
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15 July de 2002 at 15:00:41 
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Dear Cephas:
I think you're exaggerating a bit about what this Forum has been written. Nobody here has said that all members of Opus Dei are Franco, oddballs, and so on.
You have to keep in mind that there are not many ways to express once you have had experience (in my case quite traumatic) and output is quite normal to be passionate and express only the bad elements he has known: for available good propaganda is done at the official site of the Work (Opusdei.org).
On the other hand, I think you've precipitated in the topic title discrediting everything that was said at the forum in general.
And by analyzing your post: you say that 80% of Fellows are normal people, or is that 20% are not for you. Perhaps you're talking to the minority who are directors, secretaries, guards: but men are also normal in the Work--! All that happens is that they must follow orders and make you as effective as possible for the institutional purposes of the Work proselytism proselytism proselytism.
Can not you see that all media-training talks, spiritual direction, plans - lead you to become a member? Do not do that also sects? Do not you will enjoy it too at first get into Scientology, Moonies, etc.? What happens is that for some good ends (in theory) as being a good Christian, or even more, holiness can not use the means of the "holy coercion and holy intransigence holy shamelessness." The end does not justify the means. This is the problem of the Work.
And we are talking only about our personal experiences. What is not, hypothesize
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| alejandra |
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15 July de 2002 at 23:58:20
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Hello Cephas:
I fully agree with you on the following "abuse and betrayal of Catholic doctrine itself, and you can not see, you already have won as a friend and you can not think that you are manipulating."
Regarding general criticisms that fit the Opus, then man! everything we have said in this forum are general criticisms. Never mentioned to anyone in particular. We had a lot of Christian piety in not doing so because we know - I at least - that most people of op-tenured, super, aggregates - they are good people. I clarify that I always that good people confused. Is fear. A Fear that leads to enceguese and close to life, liberty and love. Therefore, adapting the Gospel to their measure and is imposed under threat of "damnation."
About fear may feel unfamiliar Opus entering this forum, how well they do. Fear! be afraid, "warning in the lead of others" and that it will suffer in the meat itself unlawful deprivation of liberty, especially one that often carries the opus on minors and on many "older" too.
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| Pedro |
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18 July de 2002 at 13:33:44
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I think it's very clear that Opus is dedicated to handling, ie their objectives seem to be few and are actually some very distinct.
Moreover, a forum is a place of discussion in which they accommodate all views, and not just those that please everyone ...
I have been directly mentioned here, so I want to clarify that I have never crossed all members of the sect Opus Dei Franco, Nazi or racist. I simply provide data on what I know. For example: that Escriva was a known addict Franco regime (which is not or should not be a secret to anyone).
I also said, for example, that there have been people of Opus Dei, before me, have begun to speak ill of black people by the mere fact of being. This does not mean you are saying that ALL members of Opus from first to last are a racist, because that would be like saying all football fans are neo-Nazi skinheads. The fact is that there are, but they are certainly a minority.
I insist on something that worries me a lot: use blithely the word "lies" leads nowhere. If anyone believes that I explain something that is not true, you have every right in the world to argue, of course. Unlike Opus, in the real world there is freedom of opinion and thought, and I am the first to indicate forever.
If you write a topic that stings someone, specifically identifying it: "Hey, I think this issue xxx is not true, because such, such and such". I'd better say "all these are lies." That is a very easy and quick solution, but that proves nothing.
Compared to an argument, shouting is very easy but pretty useless to argue is much more complicated, but enriches and helps to understand things better.
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