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Before whistler... |
ana
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21 December de 2002 at 16:37:04  
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In reply to an e-mail I wrote this letter to a person who has offered to enter the Opus Dei as a full-time member. Luckily this person, very intelligent, reports before making such a big step.
I take the opportunity to open a forum in case someone else happens the same and want my opinion:
Leete primarily well what is in the forums. no doubt that the experiences of former members do not exaggerate. The important thing is that YOU choose what you do. For that you are lucky (not that we had made the opus before the information age) to have at hand the great Internet.
I can tell you one thing: if you decide to get into the Opus Dei, who will happily that implies. If you manage to do so (which it did not before, you'd find with the practices slowly and if flinch faltabas forward "the house"), if you get it, compare it to what former members say in the forums or ask us by e-mail or the forums itself, whether true or incomplete as you have said.
Opus Dei has a sectarian way of acting. if you think that you will not be able to run your life, or that it is better to blindly obey your superiors what they say without thinking about what you should or not, the sect is your place, is a place where they find you. Otherwise if you like freedom, does not explain "compulsory" for everything you think, feel, want and do not wish to receive orders on how to act in this life (whether for the purpose it is) never and do not enter the opus dei or any other sectarian group performance.
think that once inside your main objective will be to find new vocations ( "capture" new members), work for free for them (they will tell you that "we must sanctify work and then I will give them everything you earn -- for what? to buy new houses, pay travel, keep highlands apartments in different cities, and so on. I assure you that nothing or little ire aimed at eradicating poverty, hunger and plagues that are the real issues that humanity has. maybe , recently found that some people will tell you that each week collects and delivers food to the poor of their city. true, but not its primary objective, I wish it were! the objective behind this activity is: taking advantage of doing something good for society, we do it with a friend @ (if no friend @ NO FOOD DELIVERY, was postponed until someone goes with them) and in a moment of emotion (as is to be with a poor giving food) attempt cause vocation.
He thinks people are trying to convince you that beep (type the letter of acceptance) are good people. only are people who are deceived and blindly follows instructions. once a year have to write a list of three of its San Rafael. have one year to three individuals piten. Imagine how they spend their energies!
once you enter, if you go, you think your blood family is going into the background, your family will be ell @ s. Before joining if you think family should change.
before entering if you think it should be "stripped" soul to your directors (priest and director) weekly. think if you are interested in physical mortification (sackcloth and disciplines). think if from that point you should all your relationships with people outside of Opus Dei are "interested" as far as possible (with your boss it will not work, but with your friends at that abandoned if your objective can be achieved), your ultimate goal is that all your friends is also given the opus dei.
God thinks that, unfortunately, in Opus Dei has no business. Everything centers on the father. and as you've read, many people who knew him said he had a character and conduct not exactly a saint. think if you go into your head will not have time to think about your stuff, you have to meet a lot of rules (prayers, Mass, spiritual reading) and when you have a free minute I will teach you to recite ejaculations jobs as a parrot and designed not to God but to the father.
could be giving you reason to rethink whether or not to enter a long time. I hope that what I have written enough material to make for yourself the most appropriate decision. FIRST FREEDOM, but let me give you some advice: If you want to keep your sanity, the opus dei the farther the better. nobody stays indifferent once enters the opus dei. if you decide to walk away, do it in the bud, without explanation, because you're free, and suddenly, you have no obligation to justify your actions (once inside it, every step, every thought, every desire, must be explained and if wrong will be modified to meet the profile set).
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| 37 |
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22 December de 2002 at 15:10:35
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Dear Ana, thank you for your words.
 
Amapola |
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| Invitado |
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22 December de 2002 at 20:06:29
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I also thank you, I will explain my situation a bit, I've been to San Rafael 5 years (as I observe Kerian to whistle or a stick, luckily pa mi), but I've been spending much time with them but much, until the day came q q cooperative made me and sent me to a center for ladies, taking 24 years, as you can imagine my "girlfriends" in downtown San Rafael, passed me, but rather, something q suffering a lot, I am so very innocent pq q q thought were my friends, (the kept calling, giving them gifts etcetc), after this stuff, for perspective, I have a question, I have encontrao a group of friends as q No q have nothing to do with the work, and sometimes or always have some noto q prejudices against divorced people, fear of children, fear of sex, I can not take people confidence if they hurt me etc etc and many fears and prejudices. Just to people who have had contact with the work they feel the same? Q I would like someone to start a forum on prejudice, q I q are the result of living with them or not?.
Thanks.  |
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| Lola2002 |
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23 December de 2002 at 13:27:58
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Good thread Invite @ the prejudices ... I think we have suffered many ....
It would be nice to open a window with that theme .... (now I'm going to work, because it is very late .... On your return, if anyone opened it, open it myself)
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| kawa-kawa |
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25 December de 2002 at 10:34:04
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This is a message to that girl who asked if the only people who have had a relationship with Opus Dei, suffer prejudice. I'll tell you that the meaning of the word prejudice is "pre" meaning "before" and "trial", ie try before, and I would say try before having lived, really knows something or someone. I'm gay and I have nothing to do with the opus. I searched for some time something like this forum because I needed to find out if the opus was the terrible sect of people speaking one or if instead, was this godsend who speaks to other people. As you can imagine, as a homosexual, prejudices I had and I have to suffer are not few. I speak of prejudice not only others but also myself. In my opinion, we all received the same education marked by the influence of the belief system we know as Catholicism. For me and in relation to homosexuality and homosexuals, the system says that homosexuality is wrong and that homosexuals are sick, depraved, and so on. This system has many other prejudices not only against gay ... and homo ... For example, against women (St. Thomas Aquinas said that you are loved "almost" human, it is said that the founder of Opus argued that "women should be like a doormat on which everybody stepping on") and in my view the influence of the Catholic Church and its beliefs for centuries, explains that today you suffer abuse at the hands of your comrades, sobréis less money for doing the same work as your peers, and so on. And the funny thing, which surprises me greatly, is that Jesus never said anything against gays or women or. Because I want to clarify that for me, one thing is Jesus the true teacher is quite another what they have done their original teachings over time, some of his disciples, followers, imitators and so on. And among these I place the current I Catholicism, let alone the ultracatolicismo of Opus Dei. I would say, without wishing to provoke anyone, that the present Catholicism is in part a betrayal at Jesus' teachings and in it, a betrayal of life, its beauty, diversity and freedom.
I've been 5 years in counseling. I'm just about to graduate. I'm about to start a great new life, authentic, as I am, as a homosexual. It was a tough and painful experience though (because the internal pain of so many years is large) great and won in freedom and love for myself and others. In this therapy with my therapist I have worked very much precisely prejudice. I separate the wheat straw, I've seen the big lie that about almost everyone we have instilled that not only are others, but also and primarily self. I am convinced that at one time or another in life, we all need some adjustment, a therapeutic process. On this too we have instilled prejudices (and those who intended to seek to control our lives), the fact of working one with a professional and get to thinking, feeling, living for oneself. And I would advise that you approach the embark on this great experience that therapy. That yes, first get informed that there are different therapies and therapists, and if you see clear, go ahead. There is little to lose and everything to gain. At the end of the day was Jesus who said "The truth shall set you free."
PD: Did you know that St. Augustine, founding father of the Catholic Church, was gay, and so was Pope Paul VI?. Did you know that on the first Pope said that Jesus would build his Church, St. Peter, was married with children?. Did you know that nearly half of American priests are openly gay and desclara in Spain this figure is probably 30%?. Did you know that there is an underground network in the Vatican of self-support of gay priests?, Etc etc. A hug. |
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25 December de 2002 at 13:17:50
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Hello, Kawa-Kawa, if they have not changed, the statutes of Opus makes it clear that neither the patients nor homosexuals could be part of the work, mind you!, And is called God's work
As if you could pick: "Aley, as in Opus (ie God) do not support the sick, I'll stop being sick now." Or: "As the Opus (ie God) does not accept homosexuals in this very moment I become heterosexual. "
Will we be ever ponder their rules?
I'm glad you've chosen a good therapy and begin to enjoy life without hiding your true sexual orientation. Just tell you that I can think of those passes (in the XXI century!) You still look like a weirdo because, without doubt, they are freaks.
Will we learn any time after the ridiculous ideas that have gotten us into the head, to be truly happy?
Hugs. Chao.
 
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| kawa-kawa |
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25 December de 2002 at 19:17:46
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To Amapola:
Although the opus or just in the Catholic Church rejected homosexuality and homosexuals, that does not mean that there are no priests or Fellows to be. Life is always going to be bigger and going ahead of any belief system. Eg., A person may have entered the straight and believing opus in order to raise a family, etc.. and once inside, over the years, having discovered their true inclinations. I know cases. About the fact that the church still considers "disease" of homosexuality, as evidence that the church has always been careful to also deny science. In the 60s the World Health Organization ceased to regard it as such. Of course, we're talking about an institution, the Catholic Church, which does no more than 10 or 20 years to recognize their mistake with Galileo and implicitly, that the earth revolves around the Sun
On the other hand, I note that apparently the homophobia of the Catholic Church's opus and moreover, is not truly Christian or Catholic, but rather belonged to Jewish law, there is sometimes talk of "tradition Judeo-Christian ". Yes, when Christianity comes into contact with Jewish law to stay in place, as it did in other cultures such as Celtic, not replace it completely but takes some elements of this. And some of these elements was precisely this view that procreation of life was the Jewish people and punishing behaviors (creeándose a lot of prejudices) in their society of individuals who were not geared to having children.
But I repeat what I said in my previous message: Jesus never said anything against gays or women or. Then others who were more believing that He has devised rules and beliefs that have made and do great harm to many people. To me, certainly not anymore.
Poppy Thank you for your understanding. Un abrazo. |
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| Invitado |
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29 December de 2002 at 18:00:46
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Hello: I am numerary long, I imagine that there would be a reunion of ex like this really gives the network a long way.
What you say in your "report" reflects your point of view that does not mean it is true, is very subjetivo.A I do not have said things like the express. Beeps I was very young, now work all day in a prestigious multinational company, I am happy and successful, I'm still numerary, I consider myself a discerning oersona consider that the work is great and is of God, is that only lack have 2 ounce of sense to understand these opportunities, not difficult, will realize that with my years in Opus there are no secrets to me, and I believe incorrect things you say. Ah, I do not hold any office of government, if I was still younger, now no.Me've been working out since I need to stay and help as much as I can in my house. Hey, let me tell you, that Opus Dei is not what you say.
A greeting.
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| ana |
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29 December de 2002 at 19:10:04
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hello "numerary"
welcome to the forum! if you've not given the task of participating or you have taken the liberty of your own. if so,'ll last bit (probably until the next talk fraternal or spiritual direction) OJALA not! and not stay to discuss with us "in eternum"
an ounce of sense here in the forums, we all do, especially those that we realized that we were taking the opus hair and squeezed our time and money in exchange for promise "holiness." a scam!: it works, that I'm your money! change and I tell you to do holy work ...
not think it's possible to see it so?
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| pusey-2 |
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30 December de 2002 at 08:59:30
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I'm with you, Ana
Regarding the guest numerary, you have not contradicted by any specific form of the details that Anne has presented. Another thing is the assessment of the facts (you can apparently talk, what they do with what you say, etc.) but facts are facts. In this connection it seemed much better answers from Marcelo. |
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30 December de 2002 at 16:53:45
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Pusey wanted to see (a):
Anne will get back specifically during the years when I'm in the RE never felt the pressure of that by my actions that missing the spirit of OD, ergo not quite true what it claims, at least in my case. With regard to obedience: do not believe in blind obedience to me nobody says I am free to do what I please. It goes against my principles to do things "compulsory".
This week I did the confidence, said that I am participating in this forum y. .. Here I am again
What if I want to be holy? indeed!!, but not from the grotesque so as to present such pseudo holiness ... you know that? I still think that missing two front deos 
What if I give what I earn? (Which, incidentally, is not a small amount) of course! and do it with pleasure and also try to win more commissions to enter the cajaB more. 
Is my blood family background? So if you do not tell me my! BHistoria long is to have the attention to my parents for 15 years or so.
"Mental health? her joy in abundance. They should know all the people reading this message I am fully realized in the Work, and I thank God that I have not IDO. Contento (a)?. See you soon |
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| ana |
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30 December de 2002 at 19:06:20
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numerary a question:
In order for you, justify the means?
I mean, you can do anything to get what you intend? (eg someone tell her she does not see you but your self and who has a vocation, that God can not fail and must beep).
numerary all I know tend to say that ...
that may not be answered, but only with you to think for a while (until you deliberately avoid thinking mind and say: Father, help me to be true! ) I am satisfied. (we changed the roles! now is that "we think" we want to numerari @ s @ s! that wonderful!
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| pusey-2 |
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30 December de 2002 at 19:35:46
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Amiga cash, I'm male.
Well, we understand, since you've explained more specifically.
Look, the way you have here a place to do ministry. Why not teach us to pray? The fact that in the six years I spent in the Work technique not taught me more than picking up a book, reciting many jacultarias row, but in reality what he was doing was being continually harassed praying that I dared to invite people to weekly meditation, the monthly retirement course, the circle, chat ... Finally, my prayer was based on these plans to leave. Since most of the time I went, I spent the next day apologizing for my lack of apostolic zeal and love for God. A goal came the case that the year before I was told that I was, I dispensed to apostleship: "if you hear you have to invite 5, as usual," said the priest.
In short, I eventually into a temporary psychiatrist ( "I have to pay you, so I said well, although they used it as an expert to decide if it was faithful or not).
Well, girlfriend cash, here's a friend. I guess you can have male friends right? I am also married and my wife knows what I do. A greeting. |
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| cabernet |
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30 December de 2002 at 19:53:01
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Hello numerary:
You really have consulted on the weekly talk if you can participate in this chat and you have said yes  ?
The truth, or Opus Dei in which you are not the same in which I was, or things have changed greatly in recent years.
As a member of the work, dealing with that "pulled the vocation of the window" was very clear: total indifference towards them.
Moreover, in the center where I was (aggregate) you knew that someone had left the work because they were leaving to see by. And ask your principal for so and so, why not two days ago come, maybe be sick?, The response was silence. |
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| Invitado |
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30 December de 2002 at 20:16:32
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Hello, you lazy I lost the reply message, I can but repeat:
And Anita Pursley
only because we are at year end as I write in the off there relax, I do my weekly walk with you ... is entertaining 
Anita:
next to him on the ends justify the means? ... I would ask that compose a little more clearly.
I never thought to raise the vocation that way my friends, where you were you ??... and several of my friends booed and all follow in the RE
You say that all num. you know talk like this ... I am different here you ... think I will not respond, which I already do fijate
You speak phrases you learned ... that penalty because only learned about the form without entering their content which is what really matters
The last thing, because you take your leave with "pax" if you know it is a greeting between people who are of your house and you are not already 
Pursley: do not ask about your sex, I do not care who you are male or female.
How nice that you left or you cast, because if you were not able to learn to make prayer, above in the RE ... obviously you were not faithful to ...
Search the dictionary the term friendship and take out your conclusion: do not deserve my friendship ...
your wife know you do that?
Adios chibolines |
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| Invitado |
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30 December de 2002 at 20:22:17
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| cabernet, hey, if it is the same OD, what happens is you have to have personality to not stop being who you really are, all that pc., tu, concern about the Work is so secondary, superficial, anecdotal ... that if I mentioned in the talk ... clear and have not told me yes or no, I do what I think. Chau |
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