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Before whistler... |
ana
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21 December de 2002 at 16:37:04  
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In reply to an e-mail I wrote this letter to a person who has offered to enter the Opus Dei as a full-time member. Luckily this person, very intelligent, reports before making such a big step.
I take the opportunity to open a forum in case someone else happens the same and want my opinion:
Leete primarily well what is in the forums. no doubt that the experiences of former members do not exaggerate. The important thing is that YOU choose what you do. For that you are lucky (not that we had made the opus before the information age) to have at hand the great Internet.
I can tell you one thing: if you decide to get into the Opus Dei, who will happily that implies. If you manage to do so (which it did not before, you'd find with the practices slowly and if flinch faltabas forward "the house"), if you get it, compare it to what former members say in the forums or ask us by e-mail or the forums itself, whether true or incomplete as you have said.
Opus Dei has a sectarian way of acting. if you think that you will not be able to run your life, or that it is better to blindly obey your superiors what they say without thinking about what you should or not, the sect is your place, is a place where they find you. Otherwise if you like freedom, does not explain "compulsory" for everything you think, feel, want and do not wish to receive orders on how to act in this life (whether for the purpose it is) never and do not enter the opus dei or any other sectarian group performance.
think that once inside your main objective will be to find new vocations ( "capture" new members), work for free for them (they will tell you that "we must sanctify work and then I will give them everything you earn -- for what? to buy new houses, pay travel, keep highlands apartments in different cities, and so on. I assure you that nothing or little ire aimed at eradicating poverty, hunger and plagues that are the real issues that humanity has. maybe , recently found that some people will tell you that each week collects and delivers food to the poor of their city. true, but not its primary objective, I wish it were! the objective behind this activity is: taking advantage of doing something good for society, we do it with a friend @ (if no friend @ NO FOOD DELIVERY, was postponed until someone goes with them) and in a moment of emotion (as is to be with a poor giving food) attempt cause vocation.
He thinks people are trying to convince you that beep (type the letter of acceptance) are good people. only are people who are deceived and blindly follows instructions. once a year have to write a list of three of its San Rafael. have one year to three individuals piten. Imagine how they spend their energies!
once you enter, if you go, you think your blood family is going into the background, your family will be ell @ s. Before joining if you think family should change.
before entering if you think it should be "stripped" soul to your directors (priest and director) weekly. think if you are interested in physical mortification (sackcloth and disciplines). think if from that point you should all your relationships with people outside of Opus Dei are "interested" as far as possible (with your boss it will not work, but with your friends at that abandoned if your objective can be achieved), your ultimate goal is that all your friends is also given the opus dei.
God thinks that, unfortunately, in Opus Dei has no business. Everything centers on the father. and as you've read, many people who knew him said he had a character and conduct not exactly a saint. think if you go into your head will not have time to think about your stuff, you have to meet a lot of rules (prayers, Mass, spiritual reading) and when you have a free minute I will teach you to recite ejaculations jobs as a parrot and designed not to God but to the father.
could be giving you reason to rethink whether or not to enter a long time. I hope that what I have written enough material to make for yourself the most appropriate decision. FIRST FREEDOM, but let me give you some advice: If you want to keep your sanity, the opus dei the farther the better. nobody stays indifferent once enters the opus dei. if you decide to walk away, do it in the bud, without explanation, because you're free, and suddenly, you have no obligation to justify your actions (once inside it, every step, every thought, every desire, must be explained and if wrong will be modified to meet the profile set).
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| Duarte |
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20 January de 2003 at 14:28:23
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Dear guest: "Do not waste your energy and your time, you are God, stoning the dogs bark at you camino.Desprecialos" (Way 14)
Of course your energy and your time are of God who is pricipio and end of all things, but that little phrase you can not put into the mouth of Jesus Christ of any manera.Tú follow, therefore, indications of direcctor and implement receta.Has to realize that the forum participants are people who are suffering or have suffered material damage by the OD but always came out and those who continue to participate here do so with Christian meaning of love for others: those who left, those who are inside and those who will follow within entrar.A you that you feel a victim, radicalized in your positions, as is usually between a cult and addicts do not want to insult, but warn it make clear the victim of a cult not usually responsable.A you, desprogramarte and we would like you to see the real world as YOU ARE NOT IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD to realize that love God and neighbor that led you to beep and you exert so perhaps equivocada.En order Guest dear irritable, do not be mad because we love you.
Anyway I feel a little more love (for what the "friction") by Poppy and Cabernet to appreciate your attention. Also the "usual" for the good they do and all I command a hug.
PDSabreis that "Dogs" was called to him from there mohometanos Despeñaperros, and "Marranos" converted Jews in our little ecumenical medieval Spain.
Duarte |
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| Amapola |
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20 January de 2003 at 17:59:03
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Dear Duarte, I appreciate you do not know if you've written on other subjects, so far not had the pleasure to read you, however, been sufficient in your two interventions "before beep ..." to reach the heart, is it because it's "touch"?
Remember that you have a friend in me.
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Evaristo has intrigued me your "I warned," who do you tell? No, is that I've made a mess with your writing, can you tell me something? Or is the cash at who you tell?
As for the "You have to taste dispatched against an institution because one of its members says nonsense" Why do you say an institution? Do not have a name that institution? Why not call things by their name at? How hard are you doing?, Of course, so do not understand, or realize that someone can speak the truth in front. But the truth is what it is, there is another, and we intend to publish it from the rooftops piten to only those who truly have a vocation.
If you do not like, count your truth to counter, but that: the truth. Do not expend your saliva calling us liars, because what we have is our truth, what we live in, whether you like or do not like, that's the TRUTH.
Evaristo Incidentally, I have nothing against you, really (well, this topic should be called truth by repeating the word, I mean), create it, only that I would open your eyes and not how.
Hugs
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| Evaristo |
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20 January de 2003 at 19:02:38
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Duarte: your vision of history is a bit stereotypical. I do not intend to attack you with this, but get informed a little more of ecumenism of medieval Spain. First, that the term (ecumenism) or even existed, and second, Toledo intercultural coexistence of the time of Alfonso X the Wise. I know that is not the forum topic, but take it as fraternal correction.
Poppy, the "I told you" came dedicated to all in general when the following message to Iggy, said that his words did not deserve too many lines. Even I tried to turn the conversation, but I waged against the institution. I called because I understand that it is (some say cult, and I have to put up with) If you want to know for sure what I will say that I actually meant was Opus Dei  Another thing, Poppy: I'm terrified to see who is presumed that you have the truth. Thus, with the definite article truth. In Opus anyone had told me the truth. Only one person dared to say who owns it, and I believe him, and Jesus Christ. Opus When I asked about the truth would tell me directly in the Gospels. Now I see that you also have. Valiéndome your favorite word, really thank you very much for your sleepless nights in opening my eyes. So what say you, that you open, and really beautiful. Why do not we conform to continue talking so richly, share experiences and opinions without trying imponérnoslas? At best, the touch, jejejejeje
Finally, Ana, remember that legal principle (which the distinguished scholars confirm this) "Societas delinquere non potest". |
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| ana |
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20 January de 2003 at 20:03:26
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I repeat:
"you shall know them by their actions"
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(poppy, I like your idea of separating the topics so you copy it, okay?  )
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and continue on my own:
someone can answer my questions? I say what if any member of numerari @ can deny that he has practiced aggressive proselytizing with children telling them something like this: "You have a vocation to Opus Dei total delivery. you do not see it but I do. you can not fail to God. Let yourself be guided by my "
Go! Now it seems that I made it up! NUMERARY @ CAN SOME OF WHICH ARE UNDER CLUBS, TELL ME SOMETHING YOU NEVER TOLD WELL TO A MINOR? without violating the 8th commandment, of course.
Evaristo, please, you who are in the scene, you can tell any member numerari @ who read this and answer me. thanks. always thinking of the 8th, of course.
let us remember that silence gives consent. |
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| cabernet |
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20 January de 2003 at 20:58:15
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Ana:
When I was of the work itself was the kind of aggressive proselytizing to which you refer (although it was not cash, but added, although these effects do not care because we had our own center, with club and all that).
And not only did I, but we did all of the center.
It was a remote proselytizing by the director and the priest: the Local Council (or rather, the director and the priest, as others nodded Local Council) gave to each Added the guys you had to treat (kids between 13 and 15 years) with thee this, this and this, to you, those over there ... And we said, "you, become friends with them" ( "friendship interested?).
Later in the conversation, you were saying you had the strategies that go with each child individually: to say that this thing, the other as another ...
And it was a real Estratétigo Plan, for what the priest told the boy in confession, or throwing subliminal messages in meditation tratazada precisely the strategy followed, and that all aggregates were mere puppets.
And at the end of the course, when the center whistled 5 or 7 or whatever, we were all very happy because we were blown 5 or 7 or who were whistled Those were just numbers!
So when the director of San Miguel of the delegation came to the center, congratulated the Director for "their" center boys had blown over in the town center next door.
And the Director of my heart was beaming with joy because his boss was very happy with it... |
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| Amapola |
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20 January de 2003 at 21:30:57
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Ana, you can copy anything you want.
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Truth: Conformity of what is said with what feels or thinks.
Evaristo, so do not panic, tell me that I can substitute another word TRUTH. If I build the phrase is true that I no longer belong to Opus Dei, or this one, it's true that I have beautiful eyes, what should I put instead of green?
Berto will now saying is true that the lamb ate a salad. I think he is very smart and gets bored of idiots that dialogue (perhaps right) believes that we carry.
Evaristo turn to you, I suddenly discovered how to replace the word in question, just call, as does Anne, to mention the 8th, though, on second thought, I think that's his word, who likes to use, mine, Evaristo until you find me not to replace it with is going to be: Green. And I swear (no intention of offending you) tell the truth and nothing but the TRUTH.
Hugs
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| Evaristo |
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20 January de 2003 at 22:39:10
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Amapola, Do you want to debate over how different it can become the truth of reality?
Long live the bream!
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| Alvaro |
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20 January de 2003 at 22:59:57
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Dear Evaristo, "for you all the latest noteworthy Duarte message of ecumenism is the historical and remind him of his ignorance about the subject?. Do not have deep Christian message?.
You correct a coterie putting in its mouth a word that has not entered.
Duarte writes "ecumenical", not "ecumenism" and are different things. Ecumenical, as you know, is an adjective that comes from Greek and means universal.
Instead "ecumenism" is a movement which aims at a universal (ecumenical) of the Christians, and that starts in the first decade of the nineteenth century by some Protestant churches.
Ecumenism has nothing to do with the coexistence between Muslims, Jews and Christians, whether in the twenty-first century or in times of Alfonso X. That's tolerance, respect at ideas and beliefs at others, and that's what he means Duarte in his message.
A fraternal greeting
Alvaro
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| Invitado |
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20 January de 2003 at 23:19:19
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PLEASE!!!!!!! Numerary involving the guest who is very funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!       ^PAX!!!!!!! |
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| ana |
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21 January de 2003 at 01:25:56
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cabernet, thanks for your explanation on the aggressive proselytizing. needed to know not only what I lived.
reading this forum the parents who bring their children to Opus Dei clubs and decide whether to keep taking them ... honk if your children they will become embroiled in part responsible for their children in that environment in which BECOME PURE  OBJECTIVES AND ARE JUST CHILDREN. ..  , and obey their monitors if they had just slaughtered in the inhospitable world of opus dei        with sackcloth included!  to his fourteen añitos.
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about discussing my opinion the truth is that some things are true, people will like it or not. and, when you turn off the light does not see anything and when you enter the light of day through the window.
an example of things that are true:
numerari que l @ s @ s:
daily-wear sackcloth general rule (including a time / day including 2 hours)
-deliver his full salary and testament to the opus dei
-you can not confess to priests who are not the work
"can not have secrets that ONLY THEY KNOW, having to bare his soul weekly
that the auxiliary
-work in the service of numerari l @ s @ s without salary or social security high
that the supernumerary
-handed (or should give) Opus Dei with the same amount of money earmarked for a son
(of the aggregates is not anything ... sorry)
and so on.
and so on.
and so on.
You can follow the list, if someone wants ...
sorry, but there are truths that ARE.
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| Amapola |
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21 January de 2003 at 10:23:32
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In Opus Dei not only pushes teenagers to piten, but also are lured by default, I'm telling you: When I was at the center of studies, we commissioned three assistants, attendance at an apartment where female staff Opus gave lessons in cooking, crafts and so on. it was clearly the work scheduled for the acquisition of auxiliaries, well, we had to go as students, mingling (not saying we were the Opus) between them, and try to make friends with fare for the sole purpose of pointing out, little by little that can only be happy with a total commitment to Opus Dei.
I remember a comment that struck me at that time and that still seems incredible to me: "From now on we do work among the hairdressers, hairdressers need Opus. It's that simple, suddenly, to make them well combed, was God and say, hairdressers have the vocation.
I ask you something does anyone remember the phrase: "My daughters being candid as doves but wise as serpents"? I thought it was on track but can not find it.
Hugs
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| Duarte |
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21 January de 2003 at 13:39:22
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Evaristo: I was going to Invitad @ cash but does not appear and as you do, personally, I turn to you.
It is true that a society can not commit a crime and when there have been criminal cases in specific companies have gone to jail as individuals or Ruiz Mateos Vila Reyes instead of Rumasa Matesa or entities that were difficult to imprison and all linked by personal ties to the OD . Neither the Prelature is likely to be imprisoned but many of their members are that they are as long as they are deprived of their liberty. Do you think it will be free to open the letters? IN THE MIDDLE OF THE WORLD that's a crime.
Is it freedom to force you to confess to a priest of OD?
And you control the phone calls?
Do not speak of fraternal correction because I just applied to join me (I am not nor have I been a member of RE although father and brother) and ...... I felt a tingle in the back ..... . This "charity" was previously the Director complaint can and must create a state of autorepresión is incompatible with freedom.
And you come to tell you and the doctrine of OD but it is not responsible partners. Not the Doctrine, but the indoctrinated.
We talk about moral issues and for there to be need to exist sin: grave matter, notice and consent. In the absence of freedom lack the full agreement regarding at actions imposed by the OD and none of you should have remorse for these acts.
Remember that consequences of sin is guilt and sorrow. My opinion is that you are blameless but not of this penalty and try to "Beep responsibilities" while you advance that what you do in this forum is part of the "restoration" that you ought to do. We are warning at potential victims.
......... Anyway, the founder and their heirs and their closest relatives, creators of the Doctrine "know what they do and where they go, they are responsible and when balls were thrown out problems. Since leaving football theme I've read about this, as a simile, that when lost, eg Betis goalkeeper should be the declared defeated because it was the futility of fitting goals, which lost the match.
A thank you Alvaro for the "cape" and as the issue goes to the "big fish in the thousands" you say 'fish' fear not swallow any bait while you observe carefully, who is put up your hand with a harpoon. You have to protect your head because the fish they should get out there, though ... if you had pockets ...... As you are careful not tasty and buttery with your loins could end up smearing grease or something. Look carefully at what is said in this House of God and be assured that we pray because be frightened and run away before you fire the diver.
Have a good trip, in growing, and free of tar.
To you, Evaristo, a paternal hug
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| Berto |
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21 January de 2003 at 17:21:40
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Hello, friends. I am Berto, the friend of children.
Poppy: "It is true that I no longer belong to Opus Dei, or this one, it's true that I have beautiful eyes, what should I put instead of green?".
Answer: So Amapola, you must put the look.
Berto
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| cabernet |
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21 January de 2003 at 17:28:35
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Evaristo:
The principle of "Societas delinquere non potest" refers to criminal law, as you can not drive a SA in prison, but only one can be deprived of liberty at individuals.
But that principle does not imply anything like that societies are exempted from liability, but the opposite: a society can impose an administrative sanction (fine), you may be forced to pay damages, is responsible by the obligations it has undertaken, it can suspend or even a judge can order its dissolution ...
I think you've pissed off pot. |
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| cabernet |
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21 January de 2003 at 17:32:16
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Oh, yes, Evaristo, I olviadaba:
Everything I said in the message above is true. |
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