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Before whistler... |
ana
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21 December de 2002 at 16:37:04  
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In reply to an e-mail I wrote this letter to a person who has offered to enter the Opus Dei as a full-time member. Luckily this person, very intelligent, reports before making such a big step.
I take the opportunity to open a forum in case someone else happens the same and want my opinion:
Leete primarily well what is in the forums. no doubt that the experiences of former members do not exaggerate. The important thing is that YOU choose what you do. For that you are lucky (not that we had made the opus before the information age) to have at hand the great Internet.
I can tell you one thing: if you decide to get into the Opus Dei, who will happily that implies. If you manage to do so (which it did not before, you'd find with the practices slowly and if flinch faltabas forward "the house"), if you get it, compare it to what former members say in the forums or ask us by e-mail or the forums itself, whether true or incomplete as you have said.
Opus Dei has a sectarian way of acting. if you think that you will not be able to run your life, or that it is better to blindly obey your superiors what they say without thinking about what you should or not, the sect is your place, is a place where they find you. Otherwise if you like freedom, does not explain "compulsory" for everything you think, feel, want and do not wish to receive orders on how to act in this life (whether for the purpose it is) never and do not enter the opus dei or any other sectarian group performance.
think that once inside your main objective will be to find new vocations ( "capture" new members), work for free for them (they will tell you that "we must sanctify work and then I will give them everything you earn -- for what? to buy new houses, pay travel, keep highlands apartments in different cities, and so on. I assure you that nothing or little ire aimed at eradicating poverty, hunger and plagues that are the real issues that humanity has. maybe , recently found that some people will tell you that each week collects and delivers food to the poor of their city. true, but not its primary objective, I wish it were! the objective behind this activity is: taking advantage of doing something good for society, we do it with a friend @ (if no friend @ NO FOOD DELIVERY, was postponed until someone goes with them) and in a moment of emotion (as is to be with a poor giving food) attempt cause vocation.
He thinks people are trying to convince you that beep (type the letter of acceptance) are good people. only are people who are deceived and blindly follows instructions. once a year have to write a list of three of its San Rafael. have one year to three individuals piten. Imagine how they spend their energies!
once you enter, if you go, you think your blood family is going into the background, your family will be ell @ s. Before joining if you think family should change.
before entering if you think it should be "stripped" soul to your directors (priest and director) weekly. think if you are interested in physical mortification (sackcloth and disciplines). think if from that point you should all your relationships with people outside of Opus Dei are "interested" as far as possible (with your boss it will not work, but with your friends at that abandoned if your objective can be achieved), your ultimate goal is that all your friends is also given the opus dei.
God thinks that, unfortunately, in Opus Dei has no business. Everything centers on the father. and as you've read, many people who knew him said he had a character and conduct not exactly a saint. think if you go into your head will not have time to think about your stuff, you have to meet a lot of rules (prayers, Mass, spiritual reading) and when you have a free minute I will teach you to recite ejaculations jobs as a parrot and designed not to God but to the father.
could be giving you reason to rethink whether or not to enter a long time. I hope that what I have written enough material to make for yourself the most appropriate decision. FIRST FREEDOM, but let me give you some advice: If you want to keep your sanity, the opus dei the farther the better. nobody stays indifferent once enters the opus dei. if you decide to walk away, do it in the bud, without explanation, because you're free, and suddenly, you have no obligation to justify your actions (once inside it, every step, every thought, every desire, must be explained and if wrong will be modified to meet the profile set).
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| Invitado |
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13 January de 2003 at 21:31:31
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Evaristo Thanks for participating in this forum, thanks for reminding us, with your opinions, how we think about when we were inside.
I thank also the part of the cash, the cloak that you care, and poor thing she probably can not do it Because it will have vetoed the intervention in places like this.
As for the black hands, obsessions and so on, do you know the phrase: "Where there's smoke ..."
Thank you for participating Because what would a salad without vinegar?
Chao.
Amapola
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| Evaristo |
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13 January de 2003 at 23:05:20
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I gather from your message, grateful Poppy, you recognize some of persecution complex. Then the vision you have about this case lacks the minimal objectivity. And the predictable am I?
As you will understand, to me the numerary a damn about me (like your salad) but, again, why do not you care by other members, with forgiveness, the forum, which are disappearing? Is it the black hand?Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh |
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| pusey-2 |
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14 January de 2003 at 00:50:11
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Well, it seems that we need a new impetus to the Forum. The prayers of the numerary seem to have gotten lost gas.
As far as this issue, I think it would be worth reviving it, because the considerations with which the subject starts are Ana total sense.
The important thing is information. And, I hope that Evaristo give its opinion on the matter: what you recommend and what would you say to someone who is reading this issue of chlorine and has been given an "whistle". |
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| ana |
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14 January de 2003 at 00:51:11
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see Evaristo, who cares about other people disappear forum!? when asked who has been something he has fled or have been "banned" or "advised" to answer ...?
I repeat my question since we are in the forum entitled "beep before, and never got his answer. The question is addressed to the cash and is this: once you tell someone or some person under the age of a vocation to Opus Dei, which she did not see it but you do, that he could not fail to God and should be guided by you and your advice and whistle?
if you read this message other person with the condition of cash @ in Opus Dei and I can promise that has never made such proselytizing, I would appreciate it (without breaking the 8th commandment, even "for cause") had said in this forum. those not treated with minors, ie not have been "pulling the work ahead" in schools or clubs would be under question: have you ever did you say to someone who had a vocation to Opus Dei, which she but you saw it, that he could not fail to God and should be guided by you and your advice and whistle?
remember that silence gives consent ... / and who lies sin...
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| ana |
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14 January de 2003 at 00:51:52
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see Evaristo, who cares about other people disappear forum!? when asked who has been something he has fled or have been "banned" or "advised" to answer ...?
I repeat my question since we are in the forum entitled "beep before, and never got his answer. The question is addressed to the cash and is this: once you tell someone or some person under the age of a vocation to Opus Dei, which she did not see it but you do, that he could not fail to God and should be guided by you and your advice and whistle?
if you read this message other person with the condition of cash @ in Opus Dei and I can promise that has never made such proselytizing, I would appreciate it (without breaking the 8th commandment, even "for cause") had said in this forum. those not treated with minors, ie not have been "pulling the work ahead" in schools or clubs would be under question: have you ever did you say to someone who had a vocation to Opus Dei, which she but you saw it, that he could not fail to God and should be guided by you and your advice and whistle?
remember that silence gives consent ... / and who lies sin...
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| iggy |
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14 January de 2003 at 01:27:17
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| ana, to be waiting for one member of the OD you respond. Numerary was you right? can answer for yourself. Was it that kind of campaigning? |
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| cabernet |
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14 January de 2003 at 16:25:40
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When I was "home" (?), Maintained a friendship with a guy who was my friend and I pitase before.
One day my manager told me that my friend had a "vocation" (well, suddenly, although he did not see it and neither am I). So I "advised" to do campaigning with him and not leave him alone until pitase (Turns out his father was a textile industry, although I will say that Evaristo ghosts where none exists).
Well, that one day I said, "You have a vocation", and I said because my director told me that I told you, not because I believe (I regret this now).
Total, in the end-and always doing what the local fuhrer I "suggested" because "there is to do God's will in what the directors tell us" - I pressed so that our friendship was broken.
If this is the will of God, I'm the singer Rita. |
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| Evaristo |
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14 January de 2003 at 18:45:42
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In Opus, in my neighborhood, anywhere, that to tell someone what someone tells me that because that tells me tells me to tell me to tell and not because I'm the one that it I say, I want to say (joooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooder. ..) is called Herd Instinct.
I asked this some time ago: do you really did any of you say things tricky for the face to the "Fuhrer" that he says cabertnet? I assure you understood it, at least the ones I drove. No wonder that some are cast by sheep.
If you acongojáis before that, I understood your fear to denounce alleged "crimes" and who fear ... is seeing ghosts (I have done, mate)
Greetings to the singer Rita
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| ana |
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14 January de 2003 at 22:33:54
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Evaristo, one notes that are not cash. IF YOU would have to do atrocious proselytizing commented here that if we had to do (or would still have to do we went "on time").
and you'll know if planted face or not? maybe we refuse to obey orders or "advice" that our superiors who had already showed us that obedience to have "good spirit", so we went! maybe we refuse to do so because we saw that someone saying such nonsense (which is total surrender to the vocation to Opus Dei) faltábamos the fundamental right of every human being to decide his own volition and without coercion physically or psychologically what you want do with his life.
So I think using the word evil sheep to designate some of those who participated in the forum.
sheep are along with ducks, favorite animals that have mistakenly saint in return for ... that will not ...
sheep is what he wanted that you were all, or am I wrong?
if I'm wrong, because the centers are plagued opus donkeys and ducks decorating the rooms with cold and ugly at pictures of Grandma?
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| cabernet |
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15 January de 2003 at 09:42:16
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Evaristo: You really amaze you because people of Opus Pater does what he wants but what the director does it "suggests"?
Is not like sounding phrases
- "You have to do the will of God in what managers tell us,"
- "Is mean-spirited questioning of directors,"
- "If you obey never wrong"
- "The directors know better than you what you need"
- ... ?
Do you marvel that Opus Pater are some sheep? Remember the "theology of the donkey," he loved to San Marqués de Peralta. And remember, the collection of donkeys that were in his office, gifts from people around the world Opus (collection-moreover-guarded "true" spirit of poverty).
You could not do without "consulted" before the principal. You had to always ask if you could talk to fulatino of such a thing, if you could take an aspirin, if you could be studying at night ... At all times your advisor had to know where you were and what you did. Even in the choice of university had to ask (I wanted to pursue a career but I said no, I enrolled in another, and had to obey because it did not fulfill the will of God) What the fuck!
Evaristo, really that you were ex-numeario, or do not you learn anything? |
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| cabernet |
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15 January de 2003 at 09:44:21
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In the previous message meant:
"... That you were actually cash ..." |
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| Duarte |
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16 January de 2003 at 18:00:37
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You'll whistle and you are viewing this Foro.En the street you're a normal person and it is assumed that the cristiano.Cójete good book and read WAY point that dece 593: "When you see yourself as you are, it seem natural to despise. "This point and 999 more were written the Founder of Opus Dei in section 594 and following it speaks of humility, contempt of worm dirty, ugly and depreciable, etc. and it is that you are, what we todos.Se asks himself (p.600) You ... pride? - What? and answers himself with facts:
I'm a great Chancellor of the University of Navarra and also from Piura, honorary doctorates from many universities, I have the Grand Crosses of the Franco dictatorship in complete collection, I am (I was and passed it to my brother when he "grew "and I was 70 añitos) Marqués de Peralta but the thing is not there .... I'm Noble on all four sides, the better for ocho.Para leave no doubt of what I say go to my work and pharaonic Torreciudad look at the alabaster altarpiece J. Mayné. It carried by angels see ... "Guardian? my escutcheons and you will see also in Sagrario (assault tabernacles P 876) and banks below, not forgetting the crown of Marquis Who are my angels in the center of retablo.Pero the description of all this have on the www.noticiasdenavarra.com/ediciones/ page 20020630/cultura/d30cul0703.php - 52k where A. Esparza will guide you better than myself.
Y. .. know who has paid all that? That was paid by children but children of two or three years at most (P.86  who believed in me as you are about to believe , bobo.Como child "of his children have nothing, everything belongs to their parents ...., and thy Father always knows very well how he governs heritage" (p.867) In this man help me very, very bearded men not so silly women see page http://www.escrivaworks.org/point.php? alang = en & book = 7 & point = 0 and it will come if you get child "toot" and give me everything you earn Engineer child, child Notario, Professor child o. .. your work is worth that little lady sirvienta.También your padre.Lo get him out of sackcloth and will whip you later so you do not embarrassment, and when we're inside a circle around you so that do not fall or you go out, something like a park with your child you can kidnap redecita.Fuera bad men in the crèche, we will deal better than your parents, because they do not understand us, you will be taken by us and certainly lavaremos your diapers at home because we have the right detergent and "Other" could hurt you the ass.
Then do not give me a smile put me crying stereotyped :....-¿ suffer if ever suffer? It. (P 230)
And if you do what I tell you'll make lieutenant with mustache, or class ranks or treadmill or ancilla Leader Dominae! Yes! : Discreet.
You can also underwater fishing.
Now I, Duarte, father and brother lost partner for me, I advise OD follow your way: you're doing the walk, think that no honorable man will despise you and love your neighbor and more to the most needy. Un abrazo
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| Amapola |
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16 January de 2003 at 19:52:36
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Dear Duarte, I understand your irony, do not know until that point, especially today, I explain: I have just now come to an appointment that had (the concerté I) with an ex-numerary assistant and I have become disillusioned, shattered; imagined she, like me, would be chewing and licking their wounds, but it goes!, even making a few years is out, continues with brainwashing completito: Opus is not bad the bad are some people who can not live the teachings Father, I have friends buenísimas inside, I offer the hard things about my job, and so on., etc. In short, if I stay two seconds more to his side, I think it had asked for reinstatement in his holy work. I even feel guilty for not having kept so faithful at ideas inculcated, as she was being.
Went for wool and shorn result - Am I wrong? - Asked me to go home, so I open the forum and seen your writing. It was refreshing to see someone else hurt because of the injustices he was beginning to think that what happens is that I am a lazy, weak, good for nothing.
Duarte friend, I understand your suffering because it is part of my suffering is like an uneasiness in his soul for having given the best of oneself for the sake of a good cause that it be (from the above) an ambition exorbitant to get more power, more money, more countries worldwide.
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| Berto |
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16 January de 2003 at 20:07:46
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| Hello, friends. I am Berto, the friend of children. I do not know whether to congratulate you and wish you happy year carnivals. I do both and each is poured. Evaristo, what joy to see you again. The same goes for Anna even tell you Poppy. Pusey, you too. If I say that during these months I have been swallowed by the earth lie. Before the whistle, which is the subject taken by the lovely Anne, you say you have a vocation. And pitas, therefore. I say: where is the problem? If you say yes, you're going to head to its totalitarian system. If you say no, it's like whether to hire a bodyguard nice day in, day out you will eat your ear. Must see, how heavy! And you just said yes as the sheep that eat salad. "Was not that what we were talking about? Just read it wrong. Ana, I am glad to reacquaint yourself. (Makes me qualms because I used this public forum for private messages. Is it bad spirit of the forum?) Bye. |
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| Invitado |
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16 January de 2003 at 22:49:38
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I do not know if I learned much or little, but I think I was sincere enough that more than one round here, under which, moreover, still practicing, as you can see. And my sincerity, ahem, ahem, was directed primarily to managers and Co., who were encouraged to correct almost constantly (I heard that in an annual course, but maybe I did not learn well)
As for whether anyone wants to whistle, my advice is to do as he leaves the balls (pardon me, but I use this expression to provoke anyone, jejjeje) And if what they give is not what we expected, that go. And if it is happy to stay. Or vice versa. But to be consistent and do not be fooled nor enthusiasts nor resentful.
Greetings |
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