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Some of theology |
Invitado
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12 June de 2002 at 00:42:43 
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¿Why is not also the issue from the theological point of view?
I believe that the OD has plagiarized another without citing sources spiritualities (Jesuits Oratory, Calvin?).
The theme of the lay apostolate have you been alone? ¿lo han hecho lo mejor? Would you have done better?
On the other hand, there must be other people who have left the O. D. that currently a member. What does that mean that the book leaves out freely and openly? On the contrary, all indicate how painful it was. And yet, they never tire of saying that the vocation is forever and that the ties are stronger than those of meat.
Therefore, given all other inconsistencies, it is necessary to seek the support of former opus and other people who have knowledge of theology, possibly Catholic, to highlight the inconsistencies of its own ideology. |
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| Lola2002 |
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12 June de 2002 at 14:17:15 
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Do not know much ... Although I always studied theology at Catholic universities and have found no contradictions between what they studied in college and what it received in the center ... But I am not a specialist ...
There are priests who have left the opus? (I know of none)
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| alejandra |
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12 June de 2002 at 14:43:11
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Querido Invitado:
To which you refer is not the opus theology but his ideology. Theology is deeper issues. It opus problems go beyond theology. They are good pragmatic issues.
Regarding that have been copied to other religious congregations, go new!!
Have plagiarized it. But how serious the issue is not plagiarism but they sell it as a great novelty. Autopraclaman inventors are issues as old as the Church - in many cases - and as humanity in others.
With respect to let out freely. It is obvious that when a person decides to leave no resistance - mental submission - you stop it. But it is clear that in many cases - perhaps most - have had to escape secretly leaving his petaques in the sect. This without forgetting lacantiodad of people who were moved from country, region or province to make "change" of opinion. As in his time wanted to make the obscurantist Galilieo Church, who had to deny his theory - true - to save his life. But Galileo was vindicated 8 years ago by this pope.
I think the support of former opus is for the church, not the opus. The opus is not going to change because consiguienron what they want: money, power and glory. The three temptations that Jesus rejected.  |
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| Invitado |
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04 July de 2002 at 12:02:09
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Surely this issue did not have as much interest as the others and be more boring, but I think it's worth also touch.
First, would address the issue of the name "Opus Dei". Since we were told was an occurrence of a priest who to turn to our Father asked him for his "Work of God" and that was the origin of the name. However, at the time, the Church should not have adopted that name because it is a term that was already set to discuss the "Divine Office" or official liturgical prayer of the Church.
And precisely what is not in the Work is to pray the breviary, or more commonly now called the Liturgy of the Hours, except the priests and privately or quietly.
This justified by an alleged spirit lay. Furthermore, it is well seen that the laity of the Work pray it (a thing of monks and religious).
Which is obviously a waste of ecclesial and more when we're promoting from all church bodies Community prayer of the Liturgy of the Hours.
In Opus Dei, such prayer is replaced by a series of devotions that while it was popular among the faithful of the early twentieth century should not of been imposed as mandatory or "rules" as Blessed Escriva introduced. This was contrary to the basic rule of freedom of Christian devotional. Precisely where there should be liberty in the devotions, they were imposed and where there should be a unit ecclesial liturgy of the Hours is disrespected.
And I just do not get bored moment here for more. But I think one point to see the inconsistencies of the theological and liturgical works.
Pusey.
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| Invitado |
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04 July de 2002 at 13:20:29
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Well, he continued.
Treatment here is a contradiction to the latest statutes of the Work and how in practice are forced to live them. (I do not have at present statutes, which can be found in the book "The Path of Opus Dei" by Amadeo de Fuenmayor prepared and published by EUNSA, which is why I am speaking only from memory).
Two themes will touch now: a) poverty, b) spiritual direction.
a) Poverty.
Not determined in the statutes that numeraries and members have to provide all their profits to the Work. There is only one provision, which is common to all members including supernumerary to make generous financial resources. But the practice of:
- Deliver all wages to the Work,
- Make a will in favor of the Work,
- Asking permission to any purchase of clothing, books, etc..
is not contained in the statutes. As a basic rule according to law of criminality that they can not impose requirements more unfavorable than those under the general rules for who must implement them, this practice is illegal. It can be argued that it is a "good spirit" which is the excuse offered to impose any abuse, and to the spirit of interpretation of any law is freedom ( "odious restringenda, favorabilia amplianda).
Contrast the fact that poverty Stud members Numerary the proxies of companies make subscribing shares in companies controlled by the Work (the corporate activities: schools, youth clubs, hospitals ...) whose management and ownership yield to who tells the Work.
b) Spiritual Direction.
Spiritual direction in the work is, in practice, compulsory Directors or its committees (guards) who has to have "everything" to be an extremely serious conduct "not being sincere in the lecture or confidence." However, in general canon law is the principle of liberty - though promoted as advice-to go or not to superiors or managers with regard to spiritual direction. I do not remember that the Statute imposes an obligation to spiritual direction with directors.
As for the confession. In practice it may lead to expulsion usually not only the confession with a priest outside the Work, but also to a priest other than which you ascribe. As this is not legally due, it will make life impossible for the member if not adapted to this requirement prompted the exit.
These practices will see not detailed on the official website of the Work.
Sorry for so long story.
Pusey.  |
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| javier |
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05 July de 2002 at 17:36:04
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Pusey:
More than twenty years ago I left my work but it is amazing that was until a few days ago that I read the statutes of OD one of the links in the network. In this regard and continuing the theme, I wanted to ask you some questions:
1. At present statutes are shown to members before or after the whistle?
2. You can refer to probationary periods seems to me, mention this document?
3. It is valid from a legal standpoint, you never speak clearly of these trial periods or other obligations before making the admission letter?
It is like signing a blank check?
4. How is the matter of the present age, it is true that increased from 14.5 years to 16? If so, legally speaking, a person of this age would be a kind of contract signing as a minor and mostly without parental consent?
5. Within the legal position today and knowing Opus vertical administration, believe that important elements may change their status? Whoever can suggest? Church authorities? Only father present? Reforms in the domestic opus?
6. Do not think though that when you sign the letter as you naively and blindly believing that you have a vocation because a guy told you, they are not violating your human rights and your privacy, your right to free speech, your right to free communication and many others?
Greetings. |
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| Invitado |
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05 July de 2002 at 20:22:51
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I have to say that I left the institution to early 90s, so I'll tell you the situation at that time.
It really was not until late 80s when, following press campaigns in Spain (Julian Lake, then director of Time magazine) and elsewhere in Europe, especially in Germany, we said that whoever had the curiosity to read the Statutes, may apply to the Director, "but not the wiser, as they are written in Latin," we were told by the Director of the Delegation.
However, about the year 90 appeared so surprising to everyone that not only the current statutes, but also other previous constitutions were published in EUNSA (Ediciones Universidad de Navarra) a work prepared by the priest of the Work and civil Amadeo de Fuenmayor, called the "Path of Opus Dei.
That book made a justificatory study of various aspects of the work, among which was the secret or "discretion" in the activity of the work, which, he says, was consequently forced to "novelty" that assumed in the world the Church existed committed laity, and to avoid similarities with the "religious".
The book even gave us spiritual reading, I probably to dispel the criticisms me I told him who did the talk, because I dared to send a letter to parents say they had doubts about the ethics of how he operated the Work.
Now I do not have that book, but you can buy in any bookstore in "our sisters."
As I doubt at consultation, I will say that the system is very well studied so they will not be charged with coercion. When we ask for admission (you can ask from 14.5) so we're not legally part of the work, Oblation with only a year and a half later, time periods and with the Faithful, permanently. But no doubt that as one goes poking loses awareness of what is right and wrong, that is his opinion, because, unlike other institutions, the fact that "beep" you are told from the principle that is forever, and leave it for a second legal aspects. In my opinion, is vitiating the consent, but because it is canonical ties to the Holy See can only know of the irregularities.
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| Invitado |
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11 July de 2002 at 20:12:44
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I would like to send a couple of jobs that can be illuminating, because they are made from the standpoint of theological and historical, and covers much of the demand is made, how can I send it?
If you think, after reading them you can put the network |
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| Invitado |
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12 July de 2002 at 14:12:04
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My current mail is : pusey@telefonica.net.
Pusey. |
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| Invitado |
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12 July de 2002 at 19:20:38
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I'm Pusey.
One clarification, I am not offered that information, but on the contrary, I have set for a guest who has offered to send it to me because the address on the record is not present.
Thanks and sorry for the misunderstanding. |
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| Invitado |
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02 November de 2002 at 22:11:59
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| Although some of the views of this issue and have spent several months in the forum, I discovered and I find most interesting has been written in this meeting place. I thank "Guest" their legal clarification. |
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| volo |
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03 November de 2002 at 13:37:03
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In response to the invitation indicating the deadlines for transposition simply requires that indeed there were changes not only by the critics in Spain and other countries, but also and mainly to prepare the bylaws and the final documentation for Vatican approval as a Personal Prelature. In it, the legal incorporation could not be done until 18 years and to save "distances" invented the term "hopeful" that curiously nadia cited so far. It pita candidate from 14.5 years with a letter to the counselor (not the Father). For all purposes be considered a member (plan of life, retreats, ministry, etc.).. At 16, he writes the same letter to Father and among Oblation Admission and spend two years after the offering (first legal incorporation makes the 1  well met the letter of the Constitution. |
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| cazuelo |
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03 November de 2002 at 18:13:29
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Back to strike home, Volo. But is that what these tricks (I can not think otherwise qualified) holds the letter but not the spirit. What else will you be called "candidate" or "cash" its the end I do live exactly like a member, without respect to his young age. Very own methods of work, house brand. A hug. casserole.
PS: The recolmo, Volo, is how Pilar Urbano turns this argument in his book "The Man from Villa Tevere". I freaked. I get to see the book again and I will quote the paragraph verbatim. No waste. A justification of the house also marks. |
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| marc |
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05 November de 2002 at 04:13:20
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Cazzuelo - in this we are not agree, Pilar Urbano is a masterpiece! the book he wrote is spectacularly better than lei.
It's recommend to all, good but I do not recommend going to fulminate.
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| iggy |
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05 November de 2002 at 04:49:24
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jajaja Marc, Who's going to thunder to you if you're a piece of bread.  |
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| marc |
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06 November de 2002 at 02:54:00
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| Iggy - through the end something good for my back, good and thanks for letting share my opinion |
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