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Let's start naming names

ana

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Published 24 January de 2003 at 19:28:58

although members of opus dei act "under instructions from their superiors" were people that we were misled with the foolish things of the vocation, which people were coerced us, kept us, not sausage "the only truth" and we a hair shirt while we were minors.

begin to say their names, and names of clubs or centers where we went. forward with the truth, there is nothing to lose.

ana

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 00:09:18

pusey, good proposal with your questions to ask at the information office

very good!

to see that answer if someone calls, they are key questions whose answers are serious, and Opus Dei is silent like a whore when they were made.

.................................................. .......

Notice that I did not read the statements of the "numerary that" as you rightly said Evaristo. I agree with him that is a radical.
maybe the gal has gotten me on another occasion as he did, but if not I answer because I am advocating is not wasting my time reading his follies and because I do not care if you do.

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Evaristo, to continue our discussion and give and end point or if you give it your intervention in the next you do, tell you in schools VOCATION IS PROPOSING, and hopefully I would not have INTERESTED TO OPUS DEI. because I had been left in peace without me you make me strong. I suffered harassment was such that some day may report you to who did it. I ask parents to bring their children to schools of Opus Dei who watch a lot although the ideal would be out from the spiritual danger faced by their children. I just want you never again happen to anyone what my.

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berto, welcome back! Needed along here. Indeed, the idea of the dots is poppy, I'm glad you like it too. I know I copied her!

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not people are saying, but my comments do not like football and I look out of place in a joint forum. Football is, in general, something more than men. Va por Evaristo and his atleti.

Ulises

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 11:34:48

Evaristo "jomi" the problem is not understanding the sentence only to find it, not understand that?, Nor put the page in the world, put on the schools because we can see that there are Opus, without find Willy, clear. From what the tele5 should have realized that I must be more clarito you.

cabernet

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 19:01:18

As to the question whether in schools linked to Opus speaking of vocation, or propose, I must say that I wrote and signed the "letter" to the chaplain at the College of the Work in studying.

One school had two sections (morning and afternoon). In the morning came from a wealthy family and children in the afternoon, middle-class children rather low.

I studied in the afternoon and attended a youth club in the morning. The day I turned 14 years and a half, I spent the whole morning "kidnapped" in the office of director of the Club, and they passed the priest, the secretary, the director ... everyone to pitase. And Pite.

In the afternoon, at school, the teacher called me into his office. And I spent all afternoon without going to class, getting interviews for one and another and another, as in the Club in the morning.

Finally, stunning, wrote and signed the letter to the counselor in the office of tutor in the college. It seems that that day had been fixed as the date I was whistling, and could not finish the day without me to.

Me if I talked about calling in the college. It was there that I pushed for pitase.

iggy

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 19:25:23

Cabernet, almost angrily read what Pitaste accounts of how, how that yielded to pressure you coerced into pitaras. I had a very similar experience. Pitaj The day I was somehow also "marked off" by the local council of my school, not because I turned 14 and a half day (minimum legal age for "ask" for admission to the play) but because was the first day of the virgin, the first of May.
It's infuriating to recognize that the duress that you and I suffer we would not have suffered if we had been 2,3 or 4 years old. Then we had taken more maturity and more resources, more experience of life to our will antenponer. What we did was disgraceful. Although it has nothing to do, reminds me of sexually abusing minors, because they play on their behalf with the drawback of the child and make them what they want. True, maybe they do it with much faith that this is the will of God. But faith is faith and fanaticism that tramples on the freedom of people is quite another.

And I say. COERCION. The least they could have done is allow me a few days to ponder my decision. At least one day. At least go home and discuss it with my parents if it seemed appropriate. I until the time surprised me with the theme of the vocation to work, I had never raised such a thing to me. But no, they were relentless. I pushed so that night when I was taken home by car because it was too late, I had already said yes.

nic

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 22:05:02

Hi, Lunches, que tal estais? ... I step mortal ... happy life ... I say to who wrote asking how many members are going and how much is a year in the OD are no statistics of any style, so in vain will you do with a similar question to the Information Office of Opus Dei ... by comparing the work with other religious institutions, if you (when I say I mean you anita, pussey, evaristo etc ... etc) know very well that the work is eminently lay (or not know?), it is make this comparison ... that if the numerary assistants have Social Security? for I believe that if it is as ordinary workers that if they have it or have some sort of charity, look: I do not know exactly, but the figure you want to mount (what I gather from your previous posts) is that the OD is not considered numerary assistants at the same level as the other members, that is unless they are etc. .. etc. That is not true to my knowledge and I know there numerary assistants who speak more than one language and have more of a career, not your typical "mop" which has been painted ... ok? ... ana, you could stop swearing in conversation? sounds very bad and low level of this forum ... ah! and seem to be obsessed with certain topics, like cabernet and iggy, no, I do not like to exaggerate the facts, if that happened and what expresais ... impossible things happen in the style you mention, but if you give the impression of being inventandoos all ... for what?, tell me, why? ... that way you have, what you persecute?, is an obsession that I pursue ... good obsessions, especially when based on NADA or the delusions of victimhood must treat a psychiatrist, I tell you not to reproach me, I tell you for your good ... see you soon: Nic

nic

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 22:05:04

Evaristo

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Published 04 February de 2003 at 23:44:33

Really sorry your experience, Cabernet. I only hope that is not widespread, and, frankly, I think not. I worked in a school of these. And I also tutor. Neither entered my head to remove these items, even remotely, with the kids. Not my fellow tutors, either, I know. I do remember the existence of a preceptor (cash provided) whose invalidation for teaching was evident. There were two or three. Thank God did not last long. While it did not go to extremes to tell, whether expressed their lack of professionalism in other respects. I remember this case cost me over a row with more than one.
Apart from personal injury caused you, what is a scam accounts to the education system, and also a huge attack the spirit of Opus Dei, led by a jerk who should take from there as soon as possible (you can have) A this type of "little people" is to which must be condemned in the courts and in the delegations of education.

ana

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 00:36:48

I also read how angry whistle of cabernet. and I would love if someone reads this opus dei pondered, because there was not a single person (as it appears that someone has understood here that says people must be condemned as well) but a consensus of people: the director center, the priest of the center, the cash from downtown, the school teacher and surely the priest of the college.

performance was common. HUMAN ERROR IS THAT? why Opus Dei says that when that happens are human errors that people make mistakes like good children of God? YES is clearly the way to proceed with the opus dei minors
if you're tired of saying it and no one does or if

someone spoke of equality to sexual abuse. I always think when I speak of Opus Dei with someone trying to explain what I did, I compared the psychological treatment that I received with repeated sexual abuse. but ... who will heed such a thought? my mother when I told him the first to laugh!
who will ignore ...!?
if you can not prove ... if Opus Dei is fantastic! all saints, their holy founder is recognized even by the pope, are wonderful people, dedicated, loving, affable, and rich beyond

who's going to stop your feet?

if someone with power of any kind you read this, I beg to honor the ethics you have, which considers the issue, because it is so severe that anyone would be coerced to be provided with 14.5 years.

hopefully someday someone stop this. If God existed he would guess ... it would be just and benevolent, but it seems that all that sounded so nice about God is a bowler...

iggy

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 02:35:38

Hi Nic,

I do not know what the reason is that you have told you not to publish statistics in Opus Dei. The one my gave me when I was in the play, was the founder said that the Work is a disorganized organization. And I think now: yes of course!, Disorganized for what wants to be disorganized. It is clear that the play is interested, let the image given. And it shows good image an institution in which most members are out of those who enter. Do you know Nic? We do not need statistics to speak of many things of Opus Dei, because we've been there many years. Evaristo said that strictly speaking, nothing is of Opus Dei. A nice way to express ourselves when we were owned by Opus Dei and the delivery was complete and was supposed to give your life, your legitimate aspirations to build your own family and so on. And the money each month I sent my father for personal expenses thinking that I would use it and yet the box went straight to the secretary? (because of course ... I was not going to the movies, had no girlfriend to make gifts or invite you to something ..) For as Evaristo, maybe that money that I and thousands of other members in cash ingresábamos never to return to know him, nor was the property of Opus.
Okay.

Now Nic out saying things like that some are obsessed and seems to exaggerate the facts or that we invented everything.
Nic Well what can I say. Since I opened the topic "is that respect for freedom?", Nobody has responded in this forum for an explanation or justification as to act in the Work (if you do not want to believe that the Work coerced as institution, for "act of the Work" by "act of some members of the work of kids eager to pitaj 14 years")
Nic, I understand that some things you will find hard to believe. When I was in the play also had a "mental chip" enabled so that I could recognize the slightest error on the part of the work because I was convinced of his infallibility. But Nic, although convenient for you to think so, you risk to get away from the truth as a devout Catholic would if I continue to believe that Galileo was right in his dispute with the church on the movement of our planet around the sun. Or imagine another person who does not want to acknowledge that there have been cases of pedophilia within the Catholic clergy in some countries. One thing is what you would like to believe and unfortunately is quite another reality. If you want to do like the ostriches do not want to see what they do not want to see - say cowardice "is your problem. Others will not make you see reality if you do not want to. I do not think one person deserves to know the truth if you're not ready to abandon their preconceptions. Suerte.

volo

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 02:56:33

Dear Cabernet feel everything you spent, but Iggy you and tell you you take off that slab as soon as possible, was "a bad night in a bad inn" (the phrase sounds like you?)
.............................................
As to what that says Evaristo was because of an asshole (Is the teacher?), I must remind you (as it has done Ana) than the OD one raises his own vocation, and that at least the council local priest, the friend who treated him and the preceptor of the school are equally responsible and I fear that not be made to all, but will continue doing exactly the same on every occasion possible. Besides reasoning (inherently bad) is this: We will cause the crisis of vocation, if after much insistence pita, we have several months to see how it works, if it responds well is granted admission, but "watch this kid is not yours "and everyone's happy with proselitismo.MENOS the protagonist who was more or less screwed.
.............................................
These coaciones, it is fair to say, not been given until the late '60s. Before, as discussed in some testimony was even frowned upon to deal with children, that the vocation was for men. The majority of the world were coming vocations uuniversitario (tenured), labor (Oblates = aggregates), professional (temporary). Social change (democracy), moral and ecclesial (C. Vatican II) made on groves of vocations numeraries and rhythm fall from what began on a large scale with high school work, a tactic that was favored by the great number of schools began to depend more or less directly from the Work. This is one aspect in which the spirit or charism of Opus Dei has changed. Like many others it would be interesting to debate in the Forum.
Greetings to all

cabernet

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 08:54:21

To complete my previous message (and also to complete it, then I will not talk any more about it), I must clarify that the priest was a priest of the College Center (specifically, the priest later section). The center's director, was deputy director of the College and professor of mine. The secretary of the center, was director of the afternoon section of the school and my teacher. The deputy director of the center, was my tutor at school and my teacher also.
It was difficult, impossible, to differentiate between Central and College.
Fin

Invitado

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 21:10:30

cabernet hello, your data seem to me that have little or nothing, and that good that it is, because in that topic there is nothing to discuss.
Iggy and Volo, except the cues that seem to lower the level (assuming that we are among people high, it says so in your country?), I think the whole issue of pitaj, neither you understand, that if delivered money, if the entire organization that participates in the request for admission of one, are completely wrong, I tell you this Iggy, I'm not with the head below ground, and now I respond instead of nic, because what concerns me directly say,,, is not how you spin it, if Iggy are somewhat exaggerated, but you preach that item for acceptance for who meditate, we're going to meditate? ... you want to meditate?, about how they were "dumped"

? ana true what they say "nobody pays attention to us" as if you're going to do, if nobody is interested in your life? ... this forum is to chat about Opus Dei, but as well there's someone wrote Information Office of Opus Dei for those who want the truth spbre the OD,,,, in truth the last posts lack of interest, especially those who know Internet is a medium in which nobody is going to reprimand or put to jail if defame or slander, then _personalmente opino_ that nobody cares what a surfer will step because we all know it can be a great lie, those items, I repeat NOT INTERESTED. A I do not care if you have to give all the money or not or if you said this or that, or if you ate the coconut, or if you were the victim of something, or I read what you write and I think, in life it's going to be true, we note a thousand miles it is all a hoax to discredit the work,,, why? because there are hundreds of witnesses who preach other things more believable, more beautiful, more pleasant in which suggests that there are virtues, behind what you write can be seen, hatred, resentment, delusions, lies and no one is attracted to that.

Amapola

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 22:17:51

Cabernet, Iggy, I have put a noose in the throat with your stories, I, as I told you on an "as is a day of cash, so like I experienced something I keep reliving every time someone of you has your pitaj.

I remember also that, to the bewilderment was complete, the director introduced me to the house in his office which, incidentally, had a light at the door of two colors: green and red, to avoid (if it was red) no interrupt "homework" of pitaj on who was dealing with, well, because as I said, ushered me into his office and I had the time it took to convince me that (though I always wanted to marry and raise a family) had assistant numerary vocation.

Perhaps this Nic-numerary-invited believe lie because the Work, not to lose their prey and to get more, is conducting an operation chameleon may come a time when his tummy is so complete that not even the Marquis de Peralta If lift his head, could recognize.

Ah, for the four years I was among the saints in the midst of the world "is not traded by my one hard to Social Security.

We must do something to keep them advised of future "prize"!

Amapola

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Published 05 February de 2003 at 22:19:31

iggy

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Published 06 February de 2003 at 04:26:23

Cabernet, what a coincidence, the director of my center was also a professor of the College of the Work in which I studied. The priest at the center was the chaplain of the college and my own professor of religion class. At least, I remember another of my now-tenured teachers were living in the center and I was going in the evenings to study.
Now also remember that although the head of school at that time was a temporary, three-spoke directors following a period of ten years or so, were curiously Fellows were both directors of the center where I Pite. I know because I have a brother that after I attended the center and went to the same school. Not trying to conclude anything, I just wanted to make these data coincide well with what you said.
As to what someone said just above, that lie, exaggerate, hate, etc.. I reply that I do care much criticism lightly. In this forum I do not judge the work but in very specific aspects such as the coercion of young people. Not that I'm obsessed with the subject, I said that right now I'm phenomenally especially considering that I was lucky to escape from this institution, which pushed me to enter. Sounds good to me that some people are happy in it and falling freely. But to me it pushed me to come in 14 years. Something I never would have done at least sincerely believe their own volition. So now I'm happy as I am and when I think criticizing the work that I focus on the issue of coercion of young people because I think it is fair that I do as I met the issue closely and is good for me to prevent others and to tell the truth-at least from what happened to me "I know that the managers told me they did not wantonly or economic interests. Of course not. They were sure to follow the divine will. That's the most frightening, when one of these people thought to act on behalf of God as a prophet with instructions from God and suddenly you say that God wants you to do this or that. Curiously do not tell the way to a 20 or 30 years. When you have enough force 14 years and that's things that I denounce. No bitterness on my part. Solutions are at peace. If you really have supernatural vision, that let the pitaj is something supernatural, not a human trick, all too human.
As for what I said to deposit the money, just what I said in response to the work that they do not own anything. Of course not critical that the members give up their life, their time and money if I work if they do freely.

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