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Let's start naming names |
ana
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24 January de 2003 at 19:28:58  
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although members of opus dei act "under instructions from their superiors" were people that we were misled with the foolish things of the vocation, which people were coerced us, kept us, not sausage "the only truth" and we a hair shirt while we were minors.
begin to say their names, and names of clubs or centers where we went. forward with the truth, there is nothing to lose.
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| Duarte |
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28 January de 2003 at 18:42:41
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San Joaquin gave his wife a plant, a variety of thyme, and said this is
better, hence the name Anne Marjoram Almoraduz.Hay also called a sevillanas with this issue that surely will sing this weekend at the Dew.
Do you dance?
We all know the poppy as a plant from the corn, with its red petals and fleeting sway the song viento.La
we know it all and someone had to sing to our Poppy when at fifteen he entered the N aux. Not so and whistled.
To you Iggy with your fourteen and the ambush of that afternoon ..... I can think of nothing more than your innocence of those years and your incipient mustache.
Cabernet can assure you that no foul temper and if your name is I guess
make a good red wine but there will never vinegar.
Anyway vinegar, though sour, seasoned the Ansal and if I do not like too no doubt can have its charm but more refined.
Y.. Now ... what we are .. there who starts naming?
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| Evaristo |
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28 January de 2003 at 18:55:22
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Now, Poppy. Assumes many things about me, no idea, and of course, you screw up. But as I see you very satisfied, and what I think about a damn of Duarte, for I will not contradict. It has been shown that in this forum, as everyone imagines, can be true and leave aside the views.
For others if you are interested, I say that since I stopped being cash, my contact with the Work has been minimal.
Do not tell me that you are good irony? I can not believe it! Because what the jokes ... in short, almost let him. What's yours is marketing, continues to mature your great idea of that with panfletillo thank you note included with a future ...
By the way. To see if what remains of later, someone of the audience gives a name, then say it diverts Evaristo topics or Noseque. Van almost three pages and nobody pays any attention to the author
I'll get to see Thesis... güaca güaca |
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| ana |
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28 January de 2003 at 19:05:53
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Evaristo, you said:
Are you the same Cabernet that proud claim to have said that Opus at clubs like girls-boys-they are programmed to assimilate without question a number of ideas, imposed
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I answer with two quotations, to see if it is right in claiming that cabernet ,¿?¿?¿? claimed
"In some cases, when a youth says he wants to enter (the opus dei), we advise (sic) that do not tell their parents. This is because parents do not understand us" (P. Andrew Byrne, a priest of opus dei in the London Daily Mail (7-1-1981))
The founder writes: "This holy coercion is necessary. Compelle intrare, says the Lord ... with the stubborn there is an obligation to give aid ... it is a holy task that we, the members of Opus Dei, have an obligation to carry out ... sometimes the man resists the divine call ... when you wake up the vocational crisis. Reply to this call is not a radical opposition to the will of God ... is not coercion, but cooperation with Our Lord in the desire for workers "(Cronica, VIII, 1959)
do not tell me it has nothing to do. in the first l @ s chic @ s have to obey. in the second well. |
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| Evaristo |
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28 January de 2003 at 19:35:15
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Hola Ana
You do not know how much I appreciate your arguments. After the latest posts, including mine, that is breathing.
A Cabernet to transcribe told that because he sought to do the same as denouncing. I said I never seem wrong. To him it seemed wrong, but defended it. I know it's a bit messy, but Cabernet seems to be so complicated, and I refer you to all the messages allude to remember their claims about what he cares about the opinions of others and what he intended to impose. But again, I never said a bad idea. That'll tell you now: it seems wrong to impose anything on anyone.
What I see, by the two quotations that transcribe, is that you pretend to take them out of context to support your arguments. Fortunately, in Byrne has met the first three words. "In some cases". Cabernet did not say "in some cases." Cabernet generalized. He said that Opus clubs they are programmed to chic @ s. 1-0 for Byrne.
Now the question is: Is it permissible in some cases hide something from the parents, if they are not going to understand, however serious or important it is that which is hidden? A friend of mine is a teacher (not working at Opus cabbage, mind you) and once told me that their students know things that their parents could ever imagine. And my friend said that he would be the last to tell the parents of the kids what children themselves have told him. I think it is a valid example.
The second date, what can I say. You can agree or disagree with the interpretation, but the "compelle intrare" is Jesus Christ, that is, is the word of God comes in the Gospel that Christians believe. And that text can be applied Escriva, should be applied to any vocation of any kind. Notice that he moderates his famous phrase "holy coercion" when playing with lines down the same word is not coercion. It's a pun rather usual in common parlance, what happens is that must be taken out of context to sell. But if you disagree with the interpretation of Escrivá, for nothing. You might be more convinced of Chiara Lubich. If you're not convinced what is the "compelle intrare," the theme is different.
A greeting
(I have already lost half of the movie...)
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| ana |
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28 January de 2003 at 19:55:16
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way, point 650: "there are many people-santa-you do not understand your way." Do not insist on make him understand: waste time and give rise to indiscretions "
Michael di Sales "New Oxford Review" responds to "the many people-santa-you do not understand your way", how many fathers and husbands are there?, Why has to be "a waste of time" trying to explain what is happening? and what type of indiscretion is one that a "holy person" can not understand?
and I would add, why did you let the opus dei, who preaches such things, try to minors? THERE IS NO ONE IN POWER AND ETHICS THAT YOU CAN STOP? and I still do not understand how many people sleep with concieencia quiet... |
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| Ulises |
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28 January de 2003 at 21:05:45
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I have not had time to read the large amount of shares that have been in this area since the last time I went, so only an observation Evaristo.
What I said on TV 5 is because it was you that was in Big Brother rather than the Opus, remember?.....   |
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| Evaristo |
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28 January de 2003 at 21:26:42
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Drat, Ulysses, he had not caught. Join one
I still have it from Anne .. waiting for someone to give names, it seems that only if I make you, Ana, hevuelto you not to call anything that might disturb you ... but your invitation to give names has not succeeded ... Could it be that there are guilty and all inventions?
To the Point, Victorian (that it does rhyme, I'm learning) for evidence to explain something to someone you know beforehand that it will understand, and is eager to throw time (I'm telling you from experience, mind you've been late afternoon. ..)
The treatment of minors, are you going to also prohibit Gestmusic? (That goes for you, Ulysses)
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| Amapola |
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29 January de 2003 at 09:42:38
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What obsession that we have with names, Evaristo! I think by now we've all come to realize that it would not help. What is gained by knowing that with such a poppy, (with the MEND), did work interested, focused and directed to puff a young lady named Marta Sevilla? What if such data can serve to keep other teens (I was at this stage) fallen into the nets, rather harpoon, the right? sect Opus Dei?
Lest you wonder again why we ignore the header label of the item, I will open (I hope he understands Ana) another called: Something must be done!
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| Evaristo |
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29 January de 2003 at 19:05:43
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Not if I have no obsession (with Atletico, perhaps) but insisted it of names by ignoring Ana, which, if not angry. Personally, I already said in another discussion that I feel an enormous stupidity of naming it.
What you did in your past is responsible yours. The good and bad. One manifestation of freedom is known owner of estoppel.
Greetings
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| ana |
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29 January de 2003 at 19:08:46
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evaristo, threw only an idea and so opened the forum with this title. do not worry, the names will be quiet.
not necessary that you continue expressing your great human quality and be an example of exemplary Christian, saying things like "nobody ignores your title" or something that struck me reading.
at least you've gotten a little nervous (or so I found my)
with phrases such as scribe, put another? or deepen the already written ...
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pondre another, go!:
way, point 339: "whether to save a life on earth, with the applause of all, we use force to stop a man from committing suicide ... we will not use the same coercive power-to save life (capitalized) of many who insist on suicide idiotically his soul?
Michael di Sales "New Oxford Review":
QUESTION: Is it a policy of Opus Dei use the "holy coercion" to get potential members? The charge 219 of the Code of Canon Law of the Catholic Church clearly forbids any coercion in choosing or staying in a particular state of life.
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two pointers to what you told yesterday that I put on the appointments:
nothing is taken out of context (that I knew I'd say ... you are so predictable ... all with the "chip opus" enabled). how funny resultats ...
compelle intrare: that stupidity could not say Jesus, and if the people writing that said not invented, I do not think that he referred to entering the opus dei, since they never existed.
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| Evaristo |
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29 January de 2003 at 22:43:42
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Now, Anna: Could you explain what you find remote relationship between the human quality or exemplary Christian and verifiable fact that nobody has heeded your invitation in the topic? Sorry, I blur, Poppy did, which is not in favor of naming and the only one who appointed such a Marta. In the end what remains is this: you see the convenience of betraying, and invite everyone to appoint staff, but you do not ... and who says that it's worthless ... go and do it.
If you want to continue with more sentences of Escrivá, where we agree and where no ... that nothing happens to disagree with Escrivá (assonance rhyme .. ahivá. !!!). Dating other text very similar in theme to the previous ... the word coercion as a guest star, and will I ever do see that coercion is coercion. Did I say what the pun? It may seem complicated, but these puns are pretty common, like that of agreeing with something and could, not agree and do it ... (at the end, I mess, you'll see) That is, you're going to delete me from coercion because my girlfriend constantly insist to marry me ... Right?
Chapter 14 of the Gospel of Luke, verse 23: Et ait dominus servo: Exi in vias et saepe, et compelle intrare ut domus mea impleatur.
Once you've read the whole parable, and salts of doubts. But do not worry, it's not coercion, even compelle you see. For your peace of mind, it is not required to heed Jesus Christ, we are free to believe what we want. Indeed, in the texts that we offer, Escriva himself did not cite the Opus Dei. He speaks of the vocation to follow Christ, but not used to Opus Dei as exclusive in that way. Simply because it is not, or so I taught him.
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| ana |
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29 January de 2003 at 23:50:41
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Evaristo not make me laugh ...
I have appointments that are so clear that neither you nor anyone else knows how to refute them. show the modus operandi of tax and type.
change what you want, spoke in Chinese, Latin or whatever you want, say this out of context, refers not invented to coercion, not a vocation to Opus Dei, but to follow Christ ... never mind.
those are the type phrases. as they say that is holy ... everyone think what he wants.
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| Ulises |
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30 January de 2003 at 01:23:55
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Do not remember saying anything on this issue with regard to treatment of minors, but in any case I will say that personally I feel quite negative that many parents bring their children to schools in the vicinity of Opus for instilling ideas and pseudo-religious ideologies and harmful for human development, but obviously there is freedom to do so well. What I doubt is that many of these parents actually know where their children are getting into and could be beneficial to them that they are informed about the various views that are outside the Opus Opus and not left alone with what they sell in that environment . Another issue is that parents who have all that knowledge to do so consciously, in this case is their right, but still it is not admissible then put pressure on teenagers to join the organization by using coercion and manipulation rather than informing them and their parents and let them complete freedom of time to decide.
Evaristo Incidentally, does that nombrajo ponies is that any musical group or even have stayed in Bloopers?.   |
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| Evaristo |
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30 January de 2003 at 16:28:25
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Ana, Could you provide some argument to counter that offered you? You say that things are clear it does not seem valid. I could say the same, it seems very clear that my point of view. But that is not progress. Furthermore, I believe we started with the prejudices and you were already clear before.
Ulysses, you do what you caught the first. I put it in Gestmusic because what these are're up (OT, CM ...) can also be considered manipulation and far more dangerous for children. Well looked at any school is "manipulating" the child. Educate meant something like driving to. And every family has their children to school who freely choose. Today, with the media we have and the information channels available to us, anyone knows where to take your children. Therefore assumes the consequences arising from such education. If I take my children to a Jesuit school would not be uncommon admire the figure of St. Ignatius. In the same way that would not uncommon the opposite effect, ie the systematic hate to Jesuitism. As with Opus, the same. But who does not know this before enrolling the children, so she is unaware of his paternity.
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| Amapola |
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30 January de 2003 at 17:48:49
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Evaristo, Who told you that I am not inclined to give names?, Which I do not think they can serve as anything other teens know the person who got me into their heads the idea that I had a vocation.
"Contradictions ...?, anywhere I've seen as many as in the Work:" We must be brutally frank "and yet" My children, be candid as doves but wise as snakes ". I remember this phrase made me think of a Gospel in which Jesus said to the scribes: brood of vipers, whited sepulchres.
Another contradiction: "One must be poor" and yet: "You buy what you need even though you may purchase as" Will and poor? Anyway ...
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