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I can say this: Within 15 years... |
marcelo
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07 August de 2002 at 20:09:18  
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I apologize, but I can not agree with everything that was said against the opus in this forum ...
Portuguese-speaking I do not know write well in Spanish language. Forgive me.
I'm ex-cash. I went into work at age 15 and went to thirty ... 15 years have been "inside".
I left two years ago and I highly respect tenenda the opus. I have found that non are true many of the things that have been said here in the forum.
1) I have never coerced to stay on site;
Always with respect to mine deep freedom, let me elegera what I wanted. But obviously they tried to see if mine and wants to leave provisions were real and convicts. Rather than coerce, have the same determination that if a father put his son wanted to leave home.
2) In front of many infidelities and traicciones of mine, they could b just and expel a reaction. But, to charity, try Emend, I repeat, with great charity. In this story, the "son of a whore" has been myself. I have done many things that did not suit either a nunerario, either a Cristao, is an honest man.
3) When I left work, non have left me.
I'm still a friend of at least two directors of the work em my country.
I remember that makes us years ago when I was still a cash, in a chat with the Vicar of the opus of my country, the chaplain, it told me to continue the treatment with a friend of mine who had left the opus. He said something like, "dever tendes the charity to help this guy, because he suffers a lot" ...
4) When I left work, I've gotten sad few days later. And other former Fellows I know also have a long life with a farm of sadness. And that's verdade, do not tell me no.
5) The opus does not intend to profit, just take the money. I am convicted that the opus is a supernatural nature. See: if they want only your own money, because they themselves apply corporal mortification? I think one is mortified deve bodily eagerness to have a supernatural. Nobody bodily mortifications without supernatural reasons.
6) In the same vein, why would a member of the opus with the money he has received from other members? Nothing, absolutely nothing. I was able to verify if all members - including managers - live in poverty and they tell of his expenses.
7) Proselytizing? Yes, of course, like all Christians.
 political reasons? No. I have not seen in the 15 years I have been cash. Even in election year politics, my memory, let alone ask for specific candidates in the house so as not remove the freedom of individuals.
And other things ...
I think maybe some have resentimentos against the opus, but wanted to make mine experience. I can not agree with attacks "passion" without foundation, that are made against the opus. Only this. There.
Desejo good luck to all.
Marcelo |
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| Selene654 |
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11 September de 2002 at 18:13:23
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Marukita:
Shear and distant Marukita, "Living under the shadow of what evangelical "...¡ Opus !!!... So sos advises all? Please do not ever mess with spiritual director for sure all are condemned!
Saludos
Selene
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| Selene654 |
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11 September de 2002 at 18:56:51
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Para Marukita:
Shear and distant Marukita. You have not responded, it is not know what happened to my post? There are some strange hand?
Anyway going back to my message for you: do we mean by papal infallibility? You know something about the topic?. You have foundations? ... Solid? ... You know how it handles the issue of the canonization in Rome? ... So sure are you that the one who decides the final analysis is the Pope, whom I much respect?. Were you ever in the Vatican? ... Monitor closely any history of canonization? ... What you know ...
Other: What you think of priestly celibacy? ... It was also decided by papal infallibility? ...
I await your response and hope that this message does not disappear.
Yours
Selene  |
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| Selene654 |
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11 September de 2002 at 19:01:12
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Para Lola:
You get my e-mail?. I await your response.
Greetings
Selene  |
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| Lola2002 |
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11 September de 2002 at 21:41:00
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Selene, if you got ... I answer ... (I'm half lazy, but I do fianlmente)
A kiss!
Lola
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Sofia |
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24 September de 2002 at 16:15:46
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Hi Marcelo: I agree with you. And I congratulate you speak with such sincerity. I've been in Opus Dei as a numerary 19 years and I appreciate very much, although he has left for personal reasons. But I think I can help and certainly would not talk as bad as criticizing a friend. Opus Dei is in a lot of people I love and admire, and even with its limitations and errors, do much good to many people.
A greeting from Spain and rest assured that you can be happy even though you have left. What matters is being a good Christian and God loves you like. Just wait to respond well in every situation of life. We must look forward. I think this for me.    |
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| Marcelo |
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24 September de 2002 at 21:37:27
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Thanks, Sofia, for your words of support.
Good luck and see you soon.
Marcelo
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| Ulises |
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25 September de 2002 at 15:10:46
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| It's respectable any personal choice not to interfere in those of others, but I ask a question. Do you have exited that you follow Opus and having good relationship with that organization treat you well?, And Will have left and do not agree with her as a treat? |
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| Lola2002 |
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25 September de 2002 at 17:59:47
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Do not know how it is from the outside (because I have not had problems, but because I'm not doing opened and scandals against the opus out there, only participate in the forum), but I do know that when you're in and someone goes, is as if she had died ... almost did not mention it or talk to himself (and more if it was on bad terms). Besides the myth that runs to insiders is that he looks happy, which is sad look, which is realizing its lack of fidelity and weighs on the conscience ... Noi talk if the cash that was left / a and now has raised a family ... Nothing is said, is hidden, because the idea is that there're only happy inside, being faithful...
Lola
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| Selene654 |
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25 September de 2002 at 19:11:32
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As far as I'm concerned, I did not leave the Opus, but of a convent, but where the retreating "good" and remain the "grateful" are always and ever since they came were something like the " stars ", who were in the" glass box "at all times, is not this what happens to some who leave Opus  ??. The experience I have, not only in my convent, but also with my most recent approach to Opus leads me to be wise and good advice from all sides, it is true that one can serve God from any sphere of life, which He wants us to call, but we must not be closed or see things as just as "me" I was ... In life you have to have one eye a bit more clinical, to analyze the facts. The experience of one is not everyone's experience, I once again remember the "case of the appreciation of my convent. In the "grateful" the ungrateful, (we were we were working and aportabamos the coffers at General House) had to attend the all you might need to reintegrate into their environments, of course!, It's different when you work over a lifetime and must help others to be "thankful" ...
Aimed at the emerging "grateful" and do not put all the cards on the table.
Returning the compliments Selene |
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| Invitado |
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26 September de 2002 at 23:35:43
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| I've been a few years in Opus Dei and what I see is that those who leave are most very good value. Some may look bad, because everyone is free to get angry with whom we want, but what I see, in the various cities where I lived, is that very few. |
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| iggy |
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06 October de 2002 at 05:31:26
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Hola Marukita,
Today I discovered this forum in which many former members tell of their experiences, and I read your message dated 11 September.
I live in Spain and was cash for nearly 10 years. Of course I realize that the forum comments from people who criticize you feel inordinately and hatred toward the work. But anyway, I'll tell you that I have some things I would like to know. Try not to make explicit judgments about Opus Dei but tell me honestly what happened to me.
You know? since I got out of the play there are some things I have inside and I have not commented to anyone about the work. I think me an injustice was committed. And I fear that too was committed with more young men like me.
You know very well that the work is said to be deeply respects the freedom of individuals. But, and I'm serious, after what happened I do not know to what extent this is true.
I was a boy of 14 years in 1983 who had studied as a child in a school of Opus Dei. So in my fourteen years had not even had a friend, not a mixed school. I can say that the only girls we had a deal were my cousins. Ok, then just at that age when boys start to meet at girls I started to attend a center of the work. They were my best friends, and remember it was a very special place for me. It is true that there was a climate of joy, I make your time there and getting more and study better. Besides college students living in that club you always lent a hand - and had several engineers who knew a lot of mathematics. On the other hand I became friends with the priest really that house, also a professor at my own school. In addition, the director of that center was a professor at my own school as well.
Well, a day of that year, "I was less than 15 years, was Saturday and I was in the first communion of a cousin of mine. I do not remember how I located, but got a call from someone at work and told me to see if she could come soon from the center, they wanted to talk about something.
Of course, then I attended the training facilities and I got along well with everyone. As you know, the degree of confidence you develop into a center of the work is immense, perhaps can not understand someone who has not known. Well, the fact is that I presented myself there. They took me to the room called "address" and sat against the best of my "friends" university lived in that house, someone who had all my trust and appreciation. We were both alone. I started talking about something that grabbed me completely by surprise. I spoke of my vocation to work. I do not remember as it was all or what were his arguments, but he started asking to see God at that time asked me to give my life for what he wanted. And what He wanted me to be cash. I, honestly, at any time that I had raised. In my fourteen years, enjoying my hobbies, sports, friends, etc.. and not sure what people did to belong to the Work, because I had not even raised. I remember what bothered me is that if I say yes, should remain celibate all my life would not ever girlfriend, wife or children, so .. Go! ... it was an important decision!
After more than an hour, the university left his post to someone else. I do not remember if in total there were 3 or 4 people that I spoke without interruption. It was a marathon session. And I was caught completely by surprise. The last two people I spoke of those hours were the priest (which I said it was a special friend, actually I had a special affection for him) and the director of the club. I remember that the only "breathing space" I had were one or two times I spent in the chapel, praying, trying to sort all that chaos or the dizziness and spinning round in my head, trying to talk with Jesus in the tabernacle, trying to hear something, or "see" a signal, an indication, proof that he asked me to take that step. I asked Jesus to move an object, which spontaneously ignite any candles on the altar. Some miracle please.
I think I was told not to do illusions, what merit would also decide to see a miracle? I felt a bit stupid to ask why a miracle.
Come to think .... I'm sure bored .. because you've probably heard a thousand stories like this: the story of a pitaj.
In the end I said yes. I did not discover any particular signal, or any special call within me. Why I said yes then? I guess because those so-ever I insisted I had heard adults that way, and for me there were people whatsoever. I have much confidence in them and also had influence on me. I was a teenager and two of them, the priest and the director were teachers of my own school, as I said. Another reason I decided to say yes, was that at one point, one of those people who told me that my friends told me (about five or six), those in my class (with which he went each evening to study the center) and were of the work for weeks or months. So I kept feeling like the last and clueless as well - for not having learned nothing, something that had to be remedied as soon as possible, up to the car later but with dignity and courage no less than my peers.
I said yes, but I spoke to be temporary or added. Did not even know what a temporary or an aggregate. The next day I started to wonder why I had discussed the possibility of being temporary (and thus be able to marry).
As I said, that continuous session in which the case for cash I decided to be succeeded each other without stopping, ran pretty. From about six in the afternoon until eleven at night time when I wrote the letter to Father. It was so late that I was taken home by car. It was over, congratulated me and smiled now very happy, I was one of the family as a newborn.
That evening changed my life, of course. "I was able to talk about something so important to my life, my own parents before I decide? Of course not. I saw my parents and suggested that I call during the afternoon. What would have happened if it had been pestering me so much and I would have gone home to think about my decision with peace, with time?
Do you understand my feeling now? It has taken many years, too, until I've been able to face this and judge for myself these facts. And of course talk about it openly without feeling a kind of shame (said so when you feel ashamed to disclose your privacy?).
But now I can.
What was to respect my freedom and my conscience?. I was a kid too young to decide something so important to trial. Why was there such a hurry? That day was 1 May, the month of the Virgin, and so that day was surely fixed-for-me "beep". We who know the work that in many cases the people in the work of a center, he knows that someone will talk to whistle and then so people prayed and offered sacrifices to send energy or grace to the person who have to take that step.
Marukita, you see I speak honestly and without revenge. You do not judge you. I do not judge the work - and certainly if the Work is aware of this or approves this approach ... I am in complete disagreement and I think it is immoral. I expose these facts so well know and remember so well because both have affected me. Do not tell now how my life was in the Work. I've told you something important enough to discuss or clarify things. What do you think? I am very interested in your opinion and see if somehow justifies what they did with me. Quiet not jump to your neck if you find some justification. That yes, I would like to post some reason I try to understand. I think I've overcome a lot already and I can talk about all this smoothly and without losing your temper. I've never lost because I am also easy temperament.
But I feel a very great injustice was committed and a great abuse me. The conviction that I entered the work in a strange way, in haste and without that I really have felt a special call to that way of life, is what ultimately helped me out of there because I really understand had not entered freely. And now after a few years, I dare to think and say that never should have entered.
Marcelo you said to leave the play calling should be taking the worst that can happen. I tell you to come inside without calling can be very very bad, even if years later you get out, no way to recover that part of your life you have been removed.
Thank you for reading this and your answer. I hope you do not mind to send the same message to the forum, so saving me having to count all over again. If you answer, you can do it in the forum. If you decide to answer only to me, you can trust not to publish your answer on the forum.
Greetings and thanks for your attention
Iggy
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| Lola2002 |
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07 October de 2002 at 15:29:12
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Iggy, your story of "pitaj" no waste .. That's right!, For those wondering if there is coercion, and for saying that is the result of free choice ... Take out your conclusions ...
It is true that one whistle calls, but under these circumstances ...
WelcomeIggy!
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Invitado |
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07 October de 2002 at 23:00:02
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Iggy:
tu mensaje es conmovedor.
Parents who read this forum and bring their children to clubs of Opus Dei to do what they call "extracurricular activities" is very likely that their children no matter what Iggy. if you are convinced that Opus Dei is a living model to follow, follow him, but PLEASE do not interfere with their minor children in this, although I have told you that "if the children are calling be respected ". parents are primarily responsible for bringing their children to a place like that in a person with good faith, that if they make a fatal injury to children.
pax ( al opus dei) |
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| SRG |
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20 October de 2002 at 11:16:40
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Marcelo y Marukita,
Marcello first look I am sorry your case because if you had a vocation because you did such things as bad because dañaste you know that when you have a gem is not used to clean it? but for the party. Well first, because you would have known better than to go on fooling around.
Second I believe it or not if appreciation to Opus Dei but I can not deny these realities that are very large and TRUTH! and then if you do not ever hurt you more ok.
Marukita,
That case I pity your 34 years of being bitter because it is the only thing I see in you, the typical numerary stupid, that there is nothing supernatural, who thinks that does not turn to leave a message that reflects your love for God and if you do not believe that this is a lie, this is because either blind or those in other Prelature, because it happens and that is TRUTH. So make you stop and do not threaten God naive not to proselytize creating panic. Ojala que tu le well to do a llendote work elsewhere because people like you, we all have these experiences, because I've said in other reviews that the Spirit is divine, but people who are disastrous.
Lola, Alexandra and I congratulate you all are honest and transparent.
Greetings and God bless you, remember that He loves us to distraction inside and OUTSIDE!!
SALUDOS |
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| marcelo |
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20 October de 2002 at 16:30:07
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TOPIC CLOSED!
I do not need to hear all the nonsense of some and some ...
I ask forgiveness at a few sensible people who have understood me.
Regards to all,
good luck,
Marcelo
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