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I can say this: Within 15 years... |
marcelo
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07 August de 2002 at 20:09:18  
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I apologize, but I can not agree with everything that was said against the opus in this forum ...
Portuguese-speaking I do not know write well in Spanish language. Forgive me.
I'm ex-cash. I went into work at age 15 and went to thirty ... 15 years have been "inside".
I left two years ago and I highly respect tenenda the opus. I have found that non are true many of the things that have been said here in the forum.
1) I have never coerced to stay on site;
Always with respect to mine deep freedom, let me elegera what I wanted. But obviously they tried to see if mine and wants to leave provisions were real and convicts. Rather than coerce, have the same determination that if a father put his son wanted to leave home.
2) In front of many infidelities and traicciones of mine, they could b just and expel a reaction. But, to charity, try Emend, I repeat, with great charity. In this story, the "son of a whore" has been myself. I have done many things that did not suit either a nunerario, either a Cristao, is an honest man.
3) When I left work, non have left me.
I'm still a friend of at least two directors of the work em my country.
I remember that makes us years ago when I was still a cash, in a chat with the Vicar of the opus of my country, the chaplain, it told me to continue the treatment with a friend of mine who had left the opus. He said something like, "dever tendes the charity to help this guy, because he suffers a lot" ...
4) When I left work, I've gotten sad few days later. And other former Fellows I know also have a long life with a farm of sadness. And that's verdade, do not tell me no.
5) The opus does not intend to profit, just take the money. I am convicted that the opus is a supernatural nature. See: if they want only your own money, because they themselves apply corporal mortification? I think one is mortified deve bodily eagerness to have a supernatural. Nobody bodily mortifications without supernatural reasons.
6) In the same vein, why would a member of the opus with the money he has received from other members? Nothing, absolutely nothing. I was able to verify if all members - including managers - live in poverty and they tell of his expenses.
7) Proselytizing? Yes, of course, like all Christians.
 political reasons? No. I have not seen in the 15 years I have been cash. Even in election year politics, my memory, let alone ask for specific candidates in the house so as not remove the freedom of individuals.
And other things ...
I think maybe some have resentimentos against the opus, but wanted to make mine experience. I can not agree with attacks "passion" without foundation, that are made against the opus. Only this. There.
Desejo good luck to all.
Marcelo |
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| iggy |
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23 October de 2002 at 02:20:17
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ooops, I regret having sent the message twice, sorry  |
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| Goro |
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23 October de 2002 at 18:58:12
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Marcelo:
I feel you make the decision to retire from the forum, but your reasons are very respectable, I wish him well and sent you a cordial greeting.
Mucho Animo
Goro
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| Evaristo |
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23 October de 2002 at 20:12:33
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Dear Iggy: ask not for war, but be careful what you write (good thing to think about before). The words can betray you measure whether or not what you really want to express. And it can be an error (if so, fraternally correct you), but note that can be used as a weapon against you. All this comes about from your last message:
I: Unfortunately, from what I counted-the coercion of young people from 14 or 15 years to dedicate his life to od-has been something so normal, in the years that I was inside, and has occurred many times (do not know if is still doing well now) is not a generalization but to observe every one of thousands and thousands of cases like mine.
E: "Thousands and thousands? "And you say that the occurrence of're not generalizing?
I: I am sure that deep down these editors think: well, this kid has virtues, is sympathetic, her family gives guarantees (social position, Christian home, etc.) and can become a true cash tomorrow
E: Was not that the parents and relatives could not be found out who knows what? Now we change, and be in favor. This falls under its own weight. In my case, and I know that in many others (do not know if they make the miles you know) the parents of the newly whistle when they hear the whistle was just what he means, and consults with them when they want to see.
I: you'd better between now and never miss in the years to come (ages 15, 16, 17, 18 ...) with friends, girlfriends, etc ...
The director who claims that's a jerk who, like many around here listeros, has no idea of what a boy of 14 years (although it must be that of 14 years are more stupid than any other)
Sorry not to continue, but I work. Perhaps later follow. Although I guess the answer to any list keeper (Predictably, arguments ...) For foreseeable, there is.
Saludosssssssssssssss
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| Lola2002 |
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24 October de 2002 at 00:55:43
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Of all vocations recent past was in the center to which he belonged, most were "hidden", not the family had to learn because it disguised the truth opondrían.Las urchins (ie, lied) to their parents when they were the annual course (they said it was a camp) for example. In the last one did not even know bleeped the house (only some, of which I was) because the parents were "weapons" take ...
My own brother, who officiated at age 15, went to the study center to another city (500 km from ours) and never actually said he was going (I was his accomplice, but mom and dad were not idiots and suffered much by our "delusions"), the excuse is going to study (a career that can be studied at two different universities in my city).
That that teens will tell you when they want to say is not as well, because concealment is seized by the directors and the rest of the "fraternal".
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| iggy |
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24 October de 2002 at 02:31:07
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Evaristo, I do not know what you mean by making a generalization. For me it is something like what you did in one of your messages, I think it was just input your message in the forum:
"There are many things that I would like to discuss, but I do not know what to start, you put me very hard. But basically, I think you have a serious problem, I have read many contradictions and inconsistencies, and foremost, want to be mentally straws "
By your words it seems that everyone in the forum, or a large majority, has a serious problem. Also you get (or you put it) very difficult. What are you going, from bullies?
I continue. If I said that there are thousands and thousands of cases in which young boys are coerced similarly to what was done with me, what is the problem? Say It's a generalization, but if I say so because I have my reasons or evidence to make such a claim. If you put your question, okay, you say you do not believe it. But that hardly resembles a generalization as you did (which itself is a good example of generalization, although it is true, quite innocent - do not worry so much Evaristo).
On the next point of your message. Please Evaristo, when you respond to a message from me, do not mix things please. Do not mix what I have said and what others have said because that is another way to mislead and that's not fair play. Note that I try to do the same and refer only to what you said and did not mix with other people's statements. I really appreciate it.
That hide the call to the parents what I read in the forum, but I have not told me, so I would have preferred to not mention it to refer to my post. As you begin your message telling me to be careful with what I wrote and that it was better to think before you write, you gave to understand that you would comment on things I had written.
What I said was that if in the afternoon it beeps, it left me no opportunity to consult this with my own parents. It was a momentous decision for the life of a boy of 14.
Nor do I see nothing for me to wonder what I said about a vocation young can grow with fewer problems in a Christian family in a different environment such as a family without Christian values or a family of divorced or separated parents. This is well known within the work. And it's very logical. Do you find it new?
Well, this is basically what I wanted to clarify. |
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| Evaristo |
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24 October de 2002 at 06:00:42
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I think that 90% of listeros, including you, have been describing in these pages the problem they have, such as low self-esteem, problems with finances, etc.. There is even widespread recommendation to go to therapy, psychologists ... Then I think my statement was not a pilgrim.
The thousands and thousands of cases that you know, you acknowledge that you exaggerate a tad.
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| Lola2002 |
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24 October de 2002 at 06:10:03
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Evaristo, no offense can not defend or attack? If something does not appear, either because you do not like or do not you agree, that says it has a "mental straw (which incidentally is pretty tawdry your expression, at least in my country), he is mad or have low self esteem, or are resentful, o. ...
And after all ... not heard of human complexity? People will do things that go against life position, but because they think otherwise they are not morons ... I think that's the problem, can not be set at the point of view of others, not to agree at all but at least to learn that there is "another version" ...
See you later...
Lola
icq: 172943141
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| Evaristo |
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24 October de 2002 at 15:50:40
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Hello, Lola
Do not mean to defend anyone. I think I've said it once, and now I have the feeling that some people do not want to get it (although employing stylistic excuses) And I assure you even less claim to attack anyone. I know this group Opus Dei is attacked (and therefore its members) but I do not think anyone ever attack, or the listeros or anyone. Is this a war? Are there good and bad? My opinion, and you know, is that sometimes you fall into the same mistakes denunciáis: errors which, even remotely, are as exaggerated as you think. Take this opportunity to again express my respect for all experiments: bastards are everywhere.
Sorry about mental straw (I think, but I doubt it, also apologized in the message that was included) is certainly tacky, but was without any intention, and again I am sorry that you feel hurt by it.
Finally, you know we have a problem is not to be weighed: Many here have had their problem and do not think that I communicate with morons. We all have many problems, and still think that many listeros do. She recently started a exopus may take them, but they convinced me with his stories some of the participants of the forum. Do not see where there is no more, do not see insults where none exists. I know there is another version (in this forum it seems that it is mine, and that nobody understands)
Kisses
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| carlos h |
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27 October de 2002 at 06:39:25
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In my opinion this is one of the forums more positive about the OD, as they participate and feel "free" people who know a lot of the work (have been ex-members) and are expressed freely. Most web pages against the work are references to misplaced criticism, driven rather by blind or vision recentemente simply human. However, in this forum, I see quite constructive criticism in many reviews (partly because the training they received in Opus) and a common denominator in how the subjects focus (certainly retain the parameters in some way, which is something good: the training we have received).
There are many things that can only understand that we have gone through the work, and certainly as a revision of your life. Positively I think the excesses and bad things about the work should be covered by all the good things about it.
It is true, I think the book has many good things but also has many bad things should improve, are those that mention many of the participants and make it a big turnout. To those who have been mentioned I add a (could add 30 more) never understood that and did not seem "Good" if: the distrust that infuse against the Jesuits to be that some bad Jesuits Jesuits were wrong about the play, especially in its infancy implying that the devil is within that institution.
If the work you want to have more members and stop being stagnant and regain the momentum of his early years, much good it would do to make a mea culpa or correct what needs to be corrected as we learn from His Holiness John Paul II - repeatedly apologized, who also teaches us that the Internet is the new forum where information can lead to well-considered thought at people (like the ancient Roman Forum where the first Christians were expressed).
Pax
Carlos H. |
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| iggy |
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28 October de 2002 at 05:03:27
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Evaristo, in my last post I asked you not mix up what I had said with what others had said. No other reason than clarity to make comments, criticisms, etc..
Besides, it seems that everything I say about opinions or judgments extend lightly (generalize), you get through one ear and out the other. Or simply, is that you're a loudmouth.
But in your presents me with a message: "I think that 90% of listeros, including you, have been describing in these pages the problem they have, such as low self-esteem, problems with finances, etc."
That "including you" do not know what is coming. Is it like lead? or perhaps because of low intelligence, Evaristo. Because you see that things have clearly said in this forum ... too politely for what you deserve, until finally they give you sticks everywhere and yet you hear.
For nothing kid ... take it as best you can, I'm tired of reading your posts.
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| Evaristo |
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28 October de 2002 at 19:40:40
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Sorry for not knowing the "thousands and thousands" of cases like yours.
Sorry to include you among many? "Few? Thousands? of cases that have the problem of throwing away (or have left to steal) inthe years of adolescence (do not know what you missed)
Sorry about everything as soon exhaust yourself (not a month ago I write in this list)
But I did not expect it to blabbermouth, nor IQ, nor that I do not deserve some respect.
Someone has already told the forum that each is portrayed with his writing.
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| iggy |
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29 October de 2002 at 03:55:48
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In the matter of which each is portrayed with his writing, I give you every reason Evaristo. Some were very well portrayed from their first message to the forum. It's the good thing about the big mouth: you see them come from afar.
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| iggy |
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29 October de 2002 at 04:22:06
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| Sorry, by mistake I wrote "(...) some were portrayed (...)". I was referring only to you, Evaristo. |
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